Accepting Christ as Savior & Smoking Ganja

sealed · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 2

It is true that God made the earth and all things therein for man. This is for man's proper USE, not for his ABUSE. To illustrate, God gave us the grape for man's good and enjoyment, but this does not mean it was right for Noah to plant a vineyard, and drink of the wine and become drunk (see Genesis 9:20-21). The grapes were not given by God "to do with as we see fit." In the New Testament, Paul dealt with those that would use a similar argument to justify fornication. We gather from the context of 1 Cor. 6:13 that some were contending that as food is for the stomach, that the body is for fornication. In other words, food is intended to be eaten and enjoyed by the stomach, and the body is made to be used for every kind of sexual pleasure. Paul responded, "Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord" (1 Cor. 6:13). He did not give us our body to "do with as we see fit." (see also Heb. 13:4). So it is with all God has made. There is a legitimate and proper usage, and then there is distortion and misuse of what God has given. When you stop and think about it, so much of temptation is a matter of the devil taking some God-given desire but to find an outlet that God has forbidden, and is out of harmony with God's will. So far as passages that would address the matter of marijuana: The use of marijuana is a form of drunkenness. Therefore passages that condemn drunkness would apply (Rom. 13:13; Gal. 5:21; Prov. 23:29-35). Also in Gal. 5:20 notice the word "witchcraft" (KJV) "sorcery" (NKJV). This is from the Greek work PHARMAKEIA, from which you can see our word pharmacy. The word in this context has to do with the abuse of drugs, which was often used by the sorcerer to bring others under his spell. But my point is that this is a specific passage that condemns the abuse of drugs. The text says that they that practice such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. One's attitude is so important: why would one want to smoke marijuana? Often it is done in a spirit of rebellion. Many times a question regarding whether something is right can easily be answered by asking "Would Jesus do it?" If anyone can imagine Jesus smoking marijuana, and/or encouraging others to do so, he knows nothing about the Jesus of the Bible. What should our attitude be? Do we will to do His will? (John 7:17). Is our attitude "Speak, Lord, Thy servant heareth?" (1 Sam. 3:9). When this attitude wins over so that one is not sitting in the seat of the scornful, there will be no trouble determining whether it is right to smoke marijuana or misuse other drugs.

Messian Dread · Posted: 27 Jan 2003 13:04 Post subject: Re: Pharmakeia

Greetings Sealed and others,

May I respectfully disagree with you, and may I also add some heartical reasoning as to why I disagree?

I see that you say "using ganja" "is" "drunkenness". But if you would apply certain scriptures about drunkenness to ganja, then would you say also any use of alcoholic drink is drunkenness? Because it would be funny to say some alcohol use is drunkenness and all ganja use is drunkeness. In the Bible it is not condemned to drink a little, but it is not "allowed" to drink so much that you do not anymore know what you do. There is even a scripture that says a little wine makes the heart of men rejoice. Jesus' first miracle was to create wine of High Quality, might I say "Most High Quality".

You say the word "pharmakeia" applies to "drug use". The english word "pharmacy" is also a derivate of this word, still the use of medicine is not pharmakeia in the sinfull sense of the word. Paulus told Timothy to drink a little wine for the stomache (medicin, pharmakeia). In the context of witchcraft, I would say pharmakeia would mean the use of substances to achieve occultic goals. In other words, do not think that ganja will draw you closer to Jah because it will not. Only Yesus is the Way and the Holy Spirit will draw us closer to Jah after we gave our lifes to Yesus.

I know many kind of drugs which are more fit for these things: like LSD, "magic" mushrooms and all these things, they will instantly take you into the spiritual realm. The "hardcore pharmakeiers" most certainly do not use ganja for their occultic achievements, they would use other drugs, more strong stuff.

I agree wholehearted that one should ask oneself: "Why do/would I want to smoke it?" The answer to that question is of crucial importance. Rebellion, perhaps. But rebellion against what? Against Jah or against the picture that some use to portray Jah? And would this apply also over people in whose culture ganja is a thing like wine or coffee or tobacco? Pharmakeia might be another reason for people to use it. People look for the supernatural and use herb for it.

I know about the american trend called "WWJD" or "What Would Jesus Do". Still, it is a bit tricky. I can overstand the question, but it can only be answered either from scripture or from personal preferences. Would Jesus join the army and put a bomb on the Iraqi People?

In America, I am told, many Christians are against smoking. Out of their culture they could not see Yesus smoking a cigarette. Still a highly respected Bible Teacher such a Spurgeon smoked pipe and thanked Jah for it.

Now, do I advocate smoking herb? No. I would say that for most people using herb could bring them into a state in which they find theirselves sinfull, but not for all. I do not see that any use of herb for anyone is always wrong.

I have seen people who use the ganja-use of their Brethren, for the simple reason to tear down this other one. Totally in contradiction with the most important rule: "LOVE". I have seen this many times. I have seen the hurt. I have seen the hypocrazy where people try to justify their own sins by putting finger to smoking Brethren.
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Natty 'twan · Posted: 28 Jan 2003 03:26 Post subject:

good point MD, i dont think Iyesus would drop a bomb on Iraq, and if he did want it to happen he would probably have a clear way of comunicating that to americas leader and was done in the O.T. , but even then the leaders that were told to attack another country feared and folowed Jah, and i cannot say as much for the leaders of america, in fact contrary to popular american opinion the founders of this country were only religious but not really followers of Jah.

on the ganja topic i just want to say that some of the passages concerning wine are not applicable to ganja but the bible does say to be sober and the greek word used for sober means to be in ones natural state of mind and yes ganja grows natural but upon further study by natural it is meant the way ones mind is when comes from the womb when the mother is also not on drugs during that time if course. when a proper birth happens then babys mind is not under the influence of any outside substance and that is what is meant in the greek by sober: being in ones natural state of mind. personally think that applies to any substance legal or not. when it effects the state of ones mind thus causing it not to be sober it is not right.

i know that MD does not agree with this but i think romans 13:1&2 is applicable here as well

sealed · Joined: 27 Jan 2003 Posts: 2

You make some very good points MD. The problem I have with Ganja is when Christians or Rasta say they smoke to get closer to God or it helps in their spirituality. I think that's a trick of the devil, and just an excuse to get high.

What do you think about 1 Corinthians chapter 8 when you apply it to ganja.

blaminack · Posted: 28 Jan 2003 13:05 Post subject:

I think Jetze has put up a good question that could be good foder for reasoning in a separate topic. Would Jesus Bomb Iraq????

Messian Dread · Posted: 28 Jan 2003 17:33 Post subject: Re: Herb

To be sober is a key-aspect in this thing, indeed. I can not see it without also comparing the scripture that a little wine rejoices the hearts of men. Or without observing the fact that many Christians drink a lot of coffee. Which also alters the state of mind. Personally, I love coffee very much.

Ganja can cause different things. I know people who do not really "get high" or how you call it after they use herb. I know people who smoke it out of cultural reasons. They can still function, pray, work, reason, et cetera. There are also others, who after smoking one draw, they enter a totally different world. These observations has led me to the conclusion, many years ago, that I can not maintain the stance that ganja is always wrong.

I know people who use drugs to commit pharmakeia. Each and everyone of these people turned to a more heavy kind of "drugs". Sealed, I agree 100% that to smoke herb in order to get spiritual experience (or whatever one might call it) is a sin and an open door to witchcraft. But I can not come to the conclusion that because of that fact, ganja is to be condemned in itself. The thing some (maybe most) people do with it is wrong.

Natty 'twan · Posted: 28 Jan 2003 22:01 Post subject:

i overstand your reasoning here MD and i dont want to be the one to point a condeming finger at the ganja smokers, because truly it is between them and Jah if someone is A child of the king and strives to know Iyesus better then they are going the right direction.
i agree to that alot the poeple who are against ganja smokin are that way because the do want to smoke and it is not good for them like you said but just dont generalize all non-ganja smokin poeple that way. i had no problem somkin the ganja, i functioned just fine would partake for the most part all day everyday and be totally functional to pray, work, and do the things that need to be done. and even though i was that way Jah still broke me down from that and made it clear i was to stop smokin even that i was to include my abstinance from it as a part of my nazerite vow and since then from study of Jah word i have taken the the view i now take but it is not form bittnerness of not being able to smoke, anyway all that to say that not all poeple who dont think it is right think that because they cant do it or as you put it : " because they would like to use it. But they also know that when they would use it they would enter the spiritual world."

Messian Dread · Posted: 31 Jan 2003 15:49 Post subject: Re: Seen

Generalizing, not a very good thing to do in this matter, from "both sides". I see your point and stand corrected in that. With the additional that "two sides" don't even exist, but I'll keep it simple this time;-)
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Messian Dread.
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