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Can a "pastor" decide what other people should(n't

 
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Can a "pastor" decide what other people should(n't) do?
yes
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no
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2004 08:37    Post subject: Can a "pastor" decide what other people should(n't Reply with quote

I saw this sentence in a discussion:

Quote:
We had a boy and girl want to date here in Poland, so my dad said ok (he is the pastor), but no touching and stuff.


Stuff like the sentence quoted above really make me wonder whatever happenned to freedom. It's one of the things that makes me critisize the churchical system as it has grown to be.

I mean, here we have a "leader", calling himself a "pastor", deciding for other people when they should do what and I dsee nothing about people being guided by the Spirit.

Personally I think this has nothing to do with people growing up to become spiritually adult, this has to do with running someone's life.

Aren't we to be guided by the Spirit on a personal basis? Ofcourse, ONE corrects the OTHER, but should a socalled pastor (in fact the commandeer) decide what other people should or shouldn't do?
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2004 12:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe that a Pastor is in charge of such minute details, but I DO believe that is SUPPOSED to be a leader. MY Pastor, whose name is Don Shoots, has said recently that there are NO Shootites. In Other words we are only to follow Him as he follows Christ. Remember too that a Pastor should lead out in front and not from behind pushing and steering. I have asked my Pastor for direction many times. He always refered me back to the Bible in general and has never said that God has told him so and so... IT should be about example. I want to be like him in many ways as he has the most awesome relationship with God out of all the people that I know. Do I agree with every single word? No. How could I? He is a man like me. But he also has the added responsibility to pray for us (our fellowship) asking for direction and wisdom to lead us. Is there supposed to be a leader in the local section of the Body of Christ? Yes of course. Are we also responsilble to him in some ways? Yeah I think so. Is he the level of a priest or Pope, or some such thing? I don't see that as Biblical. He is given the responsibility to seek God on our behalf. He is given the job of preaching the Word and teaching us right Doctrine. Is he fallible? Yes of course.
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warrior
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PostPosted: 03 Mar 2004 23:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Personally I think this has nothing to do with people growing up to become spiritually adult, this has to do with running someone's life.


Simular to reasonings about rastafari. Do people who say " I follow rastafari" or who were alive during his reign; were they having their lives run by Haille Selassie? NO, they follow the teachings of Selassie and the way he pointed to CHRIST. SEEN?

Quote:
Aren't we to be guided by the Spirit on a personal basis? Ofcourse, ONE corrects the OTHER, but should a socalled pastor (in fact the commander) decide what other people should or shouldn't do?


It is impossible for someone to "DECIDE" for somebody else what to do. It is always up to the individual to decide. How can you say it is the pastor. If the words that the pastor say don't line up with scripture then it is up to the believer to search it out in scripture.

If the pastor is off base with scripture then the congregation must rebuke and encourage with all authority. And make sure that this man does not try to spread heresies etc....

Unfortunately, this has been and will be a problem until CHRIST comes back to reign. Just like Aaron not stopping the worshipping of the calf while Moses was on the mountain.

It wasn't the golden calf itself that was bad; it was what was being done to/with the calf. I can have a golden calf in my living room it doesn't mean that I worship it.

Simular with a pastor. We have a pastor in our congregation but it doesn't mean we worship him. We can't say pastors are bad. It is those who are letting the words of man go before the word of GOD which are bad.
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christ-warrior
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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2004 00:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to clarify that statement (didn't relize you all were so technical) it was ment as in a suggestion not declared, in which they didn't take. No man can make another man do any thing. An anoligy: On the side of a toothpaste tube you find it says "Do not eat.". Is it forcing you to do that or it a strong suggestion. Likewise my dad suggested not to mess around or it would just lead something worse. And besides they came to my dad and ask him what the best for them when dating. There is nothing wrong when someone ask the pastors opinion, infact it is wise because that's one of the duties of a pastor and a reason of him being there.

BTW as you noticed I check other forums so there is no need to hide something from me in a forum it has nothing related (nothing in your post is about rasta or ganja) to it. And you know what, do you think it really helps evangalism to rastas when a rasta comes into these forum and clicks this topic to sees you knit-pick at my statement? The PM is there for a reason. If you got a problem what i say, use the PM or write in the same topic as i wrote in. Thanks

Ryan
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2004 07:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well Christ-Warrior, this is a discussion forum and thus one can choose to start a thread to discuss the spelling of "T H E" if they wanted to, it's their right. I'm a bit confused as to who used your words in this thread.. but onwards with my point.

One thing about pastors and leadership is that often times the congregation will agree with what the pastor says more often times than not which would make it SEEM as though the pastor's word is bond and to be taken as followed not guided.

Maturity both spiritually and mentally separates this line between leaders and followers and followers should become inspired leaders with their own opinions teaching and sharing with others. Unfortunately with any kind of person in a leadership position they will be subject to controversy because opinions and facts overstep boundaries and become skewed. We have all seen instances where big well known pastors were misleading their congregations and disaster soon follows, so this topic is always a hot one among Christian circles at least.
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2004 10:35    Post subject: Reply with quote

Give thanks for the replies!

I'll tell you a story that happenned in 1985. I was just on my way... We were together with a group of people. There was a "leader" and he started to sing in the tongues. I guess most of you know how that goes. He was fully "in the vibe" so to speak, hands up, eyes closed, you know. Then he said that everyone had to sing in the tongues. Nobody did it and he went ofcourse disturbed in his vibe. He then said "we" were all "disobedient" and even if he would have said a thing which was unbiblical, "we" would still have to do it because "he" was "appointed annointed" or something. Anyway, he said "we" were sinning against JAH because we did not "obey" an unbiblical commandment (You can't force people to sing in the tongues and you can not speak it without translation either and in essence this translation cannot be a prophecy either because the tongues are a language TO JAH and not From Jah to the people).

My father is a preacher (too, like some here are son of a preacherman). So I asked him what this ment. He showed me matthew 23. "Let no man call himself leader, teacher or father". I'll never forget this.

As far as i know this is closely related to what is called "shepherding". It's plain fascism/communism dressed up in an annointed sauce. Just like the toronto blessing hi level officials allways tell people that critique is a sin. So they dumb down the people, make them fit to obey instead of fit to think for themselves.

Agreed?

Bill, I feel what you are saying. I might not feel comfortable in your particular church so to speak, but that doesn't say anything other then a cultural difference perhaps. Take the example I gave in the paragraph above this one. I am sure you would agree with me that this so-called leader did not follow the Lord in his actions. Not only is it unbiblical, the reason why Jah doesn't want it like this, is that the people would only learn to obey instead of learn to act. To know the pastor, reverend or whatever you call him is infallible and can only point you out to stuff that Jah Jah will confirm in a way you know, this is different then having a guru tell you when to breath and when to eat and touch.

Warrior, you're right:
Quote:
If the words that the pastor say don't line up with scripture then it is up to the believer to search it out in scripture.


Exactly. Ergo: each one must think for himself.

CW, there wasn't a mention of suggesting or advicing, there was a mention of someone saying: "ok but no touching and thing". So here we have the leader deciding this. Not suggesting. And even so, the original quote was merely used as an opener. I think everyone knows exactly what I refer to. I have no problem with you, I do have a strong disagreement with you. But this quote was not because of you. I just came across it and used it as an opener for my little poll.

I'm not hiding anything, I am posting! After all, this is maybe not a Rastafarian reasoning but it surely is a Dreadfull Reasoning. It is also one of the things that you constantly hear Rastafarians speak about when it comes to Christianity and Rastafari and the relationship between the two. You ask what "a Rasta" would think if he would read this. I think that if "a Rasta" would read this, he would be happy to see things adressed which he also adresses.

But what do you mean with "technical"?

CP, right on. Especially the part in which you state that people have to grow up in order to be able to share things with others, and even be used by JAH to share some of HIS teachings with others. Absolutely!
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christ-warrior
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PostPosted: 04 Mar 2004 11:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

CoolPete: I have nothing against people discussing what they want, just in the right forum. For example, would it be aproperate for someone to ask about Christafari in the Sherwin forum? So basicly i'm saying there are three places best to discuss this: 1) The topic the quote was made 2) In the aproperate forum for the question (in this case: the Bible Forum) and 3) Discuss one-on-one in PM. And as far as me being quoted was the first quote which i made in another topic.

Messian Dread: It ok to quote me, i don't care personally. What i ment by technical was that if i forget to write one word or i used a word that wasn't perfect in meaning (like i used the word church for congregation), it gets critized and everything. As far as posting it in the Rasta forum, i don't care, but personnally i think this topic would be more "suitible" in the Bible forum which is ment to discuss christain stuff.

Even thou i didn't write "suggested" in my original post I want you to understand i did mean that he suggested. But i understand now why you used my quote. And as far as what you are trying to get to, i agree that a pastor shouldn't force someone to do something, but.... the meaning of the word pastor is shepard. As the shepard of a flock (a congregation), if one (or more) is to go astry, he is to correct them and bring them back to the rest of the flock. It would better of an anoligy of not the pastor being the shepard, but rather the shepard's helpers and Jesus be the shepard.
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 15 Mar 2004 13:04    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As the shepard of a flock (a congregation), if one (or more) is to go astry, he is to correct them and bring them back to the rest of the flock.


This is what we all should do. The bible says: "if ANYONE sees A BROTHER (...)".

My point is, that a "pastor", or "reverend", or whatever you call him, does not have absolute authority over the "flock".

We all have to think for ourselves.
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