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Haile Selassie: good or bad man?
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Makheru8



Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 7

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 01:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Apedemak was closely associated with the King...very close akin to patron of the Royal Family -- That was it's use(the Lion symbol) in Sudan. Also as the Nubians and Kemetics were a people who were close to nature -- and delighted in bright colors in thier dress and architecture -- it is not a far reach for them to have also used RED GOLD AND GREEN as a significant color combination...


Jonagus, and Irie -- just curious, would it offend you if the coming son(Iu Se[a]) were Black? I mean I know you already have your image of what he is, but just for reasonings sake? See we(well myself, and probably some others) have all entertained the western concept Christ, could you allow yourself for a second to see christ from an African perspective? It seems their is a resentment of all things African -- African Symbols, African People, African kings. This is not said because you make your points -- but you make your points and don't seem listen to others, I state this because you did not even consider Apedemak the first time.

RED GOLD AND GREEN
ROUND A RAINBOW CIRCLE THRONE
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12TribesLion



Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Location: Caribbean

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 03:31    Post subject: Good questions Makheru Reply with quote

My question though is why do you use the Lion of Zion symbols, the red gold and green, dreads, etc.. when it seems so many of you have such disdain and contempt for Rastafarian doctrines and the Champion of Faith? It would seem that you all agree on the divinity of Jesus Christ.. why aren't you following him? If he is the light that guides you follow him, or is it that you are still seeking? Seriously, if you have a light for your path, why did you jump on Rastas' train? Its peculiar behavior, to adopt the symbols of a movement that one declares invalid -- is that sane? Oui have stated that you declare the movement invalid because you have stated that Selassie I was not divine, Selassie I was not of the root of David, Selassie I was not a good leader of his people, even as far as to say Selassie I did not practice what he preached-- this destroys nearly everything that Rasta is -- and if you choose to believe those things cool -- but why then associate yourself with Rasta or its symbols? One can say that the "Conquering Lion of Judah" and related symbols do not belong to Rasta as they are referenced in the Holy Bible and are property to all. Rasta may not have defined these ideas(symbols) --but Rasta is certainly responsible for their character (i.e. without Rasta the appeal of those symbols would likely not be as strong)... Who sees Red Gold and Green and thinks Rome (granted I overstand this is not the order on the Flag.. but I respect the Creator and him create red gold and green...then ones can still argue that the order on the flag shifted several times in history before being "fixed" with the green on top).
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These questions you asked here Makheru, are indeed the questions I have asked ever since I joined this forum. Well no matter what anyone can say about Rastafari, natty never pay them no mind. Keep on chanting like Luciano seh!
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12TribesLion



Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Location: Caribbean

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 03:55    Post subject: Who seh dat? Reply with quote

Good points you made Makheru about the Lion symbol being African & let's not forget the colors neither as well as locks. If I am not mistaken, the land of Israel is a part of Africa also, not the Middle East which Babylon created to divide the biblical linkage between Ethiopia and Israel. Let's not forget that the ancient Israelites were certainly not Europeans, but dark skinned inhabitants, basically African Hebrew Israelites.

Who seh that Rastafari is derived from Judaism or Christianity? Rastafari ain't no religion but a spirituality unlike Judaism and Christianity, which are religions and history has proven that. Furthermore, both of these faiths were not founded by Israelites, they embraced the Messianic Faith.

Judaism is a religion started by European Jews, the Askhenazis. Christianity came from Gentiles not Israelites. Which is obvious because the word Christianity is a greek term not Hebrew. Christ is a Gentile distortion of the Messiah, which originally means Anointed One of Yah.

Jesus is not originally the name of the Messiah, it is Yahshua Ha Mashiach. The Israelites were not known as Christians but Messians or Messianists, it was Gentiles that called them that. Rastafari don't deal with no Judaism or Christianity, but Israel and Ethiopia, the two places that Jah chose. Rastafari roots can be traced in Africa, & like I already said Israel is Northeast Africa.

Like I said already ones better watch what they say about the Emperor Haile Selassie I, because mind Jah might not punish you for speaking against His elect. None of you can't even do the things that His Imperial Majesty did in the first place. So be careful who some of you dis because you could get a lick from Fadda.
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blaminack
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 03:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a I am sure you know that many of these symbols that you refer to as being particularly Rasta are more than just that. They are Biblical symbols. Christian therefore should by all means be able to use them to mean the things intended in the Bible.

As far as the idea that there is disdain for Rastas, there is nothing further from the truth here. I for one love Rastas, along with all people. My focus has nothing to do with taking away Rasta ideas. I am just trying to forward the same faith and belief that Ras Tafari held. That is that all men need Christ as Savior. All other matters will be dealt with by God, in the heart of the individual.
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12TribesLion



Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Posts: 50
Location: Caribbean

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 05:31    Post subject: Maybe not you Reply with quote

Maybe it is not your intention to criticise Rastafarians blaminack, but surely some are doing it here, & its uncall for man, love need to shown. I've reasoned with some Christian people and they are open minded not close minded like others, to overstand Rastafari. Even if they might disagree still they never act ignorant towards I n I.

His Imperial Majesty Emperor Haile Selassie I, taught us tolerance towards all faiths and that is what Rastafarians do practice. I might not agree with everything that Christianity, Islam, & other faiths teach, but still as a Rastaman me don't undermine them by saying they are cults, just because I don't see eye to eye with them. No, because that is only up to the Most High, Jah, to judge ones not any of us.

You mention that these symbols are Biblical, that is true, but who in these times truly showed these symbols to the people? Jews, or Christians? I don't think so, only Rastas identified with these emblems, & were even persecuted for wearing them by Babylon. Like I said already these symbols ain't for commercialization, but for spiritual usage.

I know what ones have assumed here believing that Rastafari stole these symbols from Jews and Christians. But that is just a fallacious statement, because these are African symbols not European ones. Since history has proven that Ethiopia is the first nation on this earth, and these colors came from this spiritual land, is why I n I Rastafarians use them, to identify with Ethiopia, & Israel.

Another thing that ones need to know is that the founders of Reggae Music were Rastafarians, who sang to uplift the people in the ghetto from their sufferation, & for them to know their African History, not for gaytiness or any kind of commercialization. I don't have no problem with any non Rastafarians using Reggae, just know who the founders of the King's Muzik is, & show raspect to them.
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Messian Dread
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Joined: 27 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 07:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know that blaminack doesn't want to communicate with me no more over the critique I have on the House of Christafari which he chooses to defend so heartically.

I even expect to be banned from this place because I am not doing anything to forward LOZ eeeh the Kingdom of God. In their words ofcourse.

But how can you be silent in an instance where there is so many untruths displayed?

[quote="blaminack"]I don't think that you have seen something that downgrades or disrespects Selassie in any way that came from LOZ. /[quote]

This has been sufficiently answered in the multitude of random quotes as they can be found all over this place.

It is even questioned how people can possibly believe Selassie to descend from king David, but when the founder of Christafari compares himself with David and Moses no one even realizes that for what it is.


Quote:
First it is a matter of perspectives. If you believe that HIM is diven then anything that anyone could say to show something contrary is seen as being disrespectful.


Hmm.... Why do I never hear from Rastafarians that I am disrespectfull when I witness that I do not believe Selassie to be the incarnated JAH?

Why do I only hear that my faith is doubted and my salvation too just because I do not want to join in this game of discrediting everything about Selassie and Rastafarians.

Quote:
If someone thinks of HIM as God and I do not, I am automatically seen as on the attack and that is by no means the case.


That is obviously not because you do not believe HIM to be God as there are many many many many many within Rastafari who also do not believe Him to be God and they do not ever see the end of a knife being pointed at them for their "believe" by one of these "enemies of Christianity" as Rastas are being described and sisplayed here.


Quote:
The only goal in LOZ is for people who do not know Christ to find Christ.


This is something of which I have many reasons to sincerely and intelectually doubt.


Quote:
I don't think even one person here thinks that Christ cannot reveal Himself through a Rasta faith. However when that happens there is an adjustment that takes place in regards to previously held beliefs.


In other words: 1 2 b a Christian? Cyaan't b a Rasta.....


Quote:
Think of the life and testimony of Judy Mowatt. Is she not still Rasta in life style, yet she sees HIM in a differant light now. She has seen HIM as He him self wanted to be seen. That is by no means an illegitimate growth!


Even that is incorrect. Sister Judy has cut her dreads. I have seen sistren expressing their sadness over the fact that Judy is now trodding in that way.


Quote:
As far as the idea that there is disdain for Rastas, there is nothing further from the truth here. I for one love Rastas, along with all people. My focus has nothing to do with taking away Rasta ideas.


and wheeeeeeeeeeeeeel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
I don't think even one person here thinks that Christ cannot reveal Himself through a Rasta faith. However when that happens there is an adjustment that takes place in regards to previously held beliefs.



Quote:
I am just trying to forward the same faith and belief that Ras Tafari held. That is that all men need Christ as Savior. All other matters will be dealt with by God, in the heart of the individual.


Matters such as smoking herb? If you do not want to state that herb is a universal sin for all people in all times this is considered a reason not to sell your music around here as it is reason for some to literally "doubt the salvation" of you. Yes I speak about myself and no I do not want to be sold here but it is about the reason why LOZ doesn't want it. The reason I don't want it is because I do not want to be a part of the Christian Contemporary Musical Industrial Complex and hey why is it that we are not talking about Yesus Kristos?

Because it is not about Him.

It's about LOZ.
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blaminack
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 12:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Matters such as smoking herb? If you do not want to state that herb is a universal sin for all people in all times this is considered a reason not to sell your music around here as it is reason for some to literally "doubt the salvation" of you. Yes I speak about myself and no I do not want to be sold here but it is about the reason why LOZ doesn't want it. The reason I don't want it is because I do not want to be a part of the Christian Contemporary Musical Industrial Complex and hey why is it that we are not talking about Yesus Kristos?

Because it is not about Him.

It's about LOZ.[/quote]

In my heart I absolutely believe that this is all that your entire crusade is all about. You have a vendetta. That is fine. I am done talking about that.

As for the rest. Please show me a place where I have said something disrespectful about Selassie, while leaving it in the context that I intended.

And by the way I am not about defending Christafari. I am about truth, which you love to spin up into little knots to fulfill your ego boost.

For the whole heap that you talked about my ideas of changing Rasta. again you have twisted the truth for your own vendetta. You have totally misrepresented what was said. Please Jetze, tell Morgan Heritage and Gad that you now have to Dread to be Rasta! See the twist that you implied here even goes against what is commonly taught by the largest House of Rasta. Judy Mowatt says that she is a fulfilled Rasta, and that she is following the way that Selassie leads. So I think it is you who should wheel..... the adjustments of previouslt held beliefs had to do with the belief that Selassie is Divine. So I am asking now then, if you misrepresented my words to those here, as saying that the person could no longer be Rasta then you have lied to these people. I said that they had to adjust. Even Spence in Dread Jesus talks about and has many Rastas talk about that shift in beliefs that many Rastas had to have when Ras Tafari was murdered.

Jetze now you are falling to the level of bearing false witness to continue the campaign against those that should be your brethren even if you disagree with them.
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Messian Dread
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Joined: 27 Jul 2002
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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 18:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can believe all you want about some vendetta after all that is probably where your mind set would lead you to if you would do what I am doing.

It is because I like to state things which I for myself know are true or can be verified. That is why I refer to the fact that it was stated on this website that my music can not be sold (this was stated without any request from my side) for someone who is "known to be an avod smoker of marijuana" is not someone who is considered Christian enough.

Do I have to point out in this context how business and religion are mixed at LOZ? I think that is evidently if I look to the policy.

I really do not want anything from Christafari, other than that everybody here follows YESUS KRISTOS.

I remember too well how people gathered at this place to collectively decide over the question whether I am saved or not.

Not based on any ideas I have concerning Selassie, as many had the idea that I believe Selassie to be God.

Now where did they get that idea from? From a picture of Rastafari painted in their heads by the Christian "Researchers" and Christafari Interviews?

Not based on any self proclaimed rastafarianess from my side. I do not call myself a Rasta although other people call me a Rasta and I do not mind because I know what they mean with that.

"Dread To Be Rasta"? That's a black uhuru tune, did you know?

You know, you don't have to tell a Rasta how to be a Rasta. Only Rastas know how to be a Rasta and nobody told them. Still they recognize each other and they sometimes chuckle a bit and play that ol'e culture song: "babylon you can't study the rastaman".

No, the reason why I have tried the last years to find ways to communicate and find common ground is to prevent the fruits of christafarianism.

Because to deny someone's faith is a serious thing. And Christafarianism is based on denying the faith of certain Christian Brothers and Sisters within and around Rastafari. With some terrible results and consequences.


You might change your words a bit in your posting, from "rastas" to "some rastas" as you write your reply to what is written here by no not only me, as it is noticed, and you might say no not a change but adjustement yet you speak about a point in which Judy became born again and you know that born again is more then an adjustement.

Tell me, can a Rasta be a born again Christian?

If the answer is "no", then you know my arguments.

If the answer is "yes" then my question is what are doing here moderating for a culture that claims all born again rastafarians are deceivers?
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