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HERB IS THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS
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DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO RESEARCH THE FACTS?
OF COURSE, BROTHA
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 84%  [ 11 ]
NAHH I'M SO COMFY HERE ANYWAY
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2004 05:10    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Ok are you saying that your experience IS the same as his?


No. Neither have I claimed that I smoke and that JAH told me to smoke or doesn't forbid me to smoke. I might, I might not.

Quote:
Because he is saying that he is addicted and all his past ideas about ganja use were to justify his addict to make it look ok?


I learned to be observant, analytical, not taking anything at face value. I know how enormous the pressure of the churchical system can be on a smoker who in himself isn't really having trouble with his smoking. I know much the churchical system is aimed at putting ganja among the rest of the drugs. I know they can make believe believe certasin things.

In short, just because he says he's addictive and all that doesn't neccesasrily make it so. And we are here in a discussion forum. He also calsim JAH told him and that might or might not be so in his personal "case". I do not one second doubt that JAH sometimes does this.

I just wondered. The bnrother said he stopped because JAH told him so, in the end. All the "non-smokers" seem to be happy with that. But are they happy because JAH told the brother a thing or because of what JAH told the brother? Or do they believe it is the voice of JAH because the voice is saying what they are thinking? If either one of the above is the case, then there is something wrong.

Should I expect the same responses when somebody would come here and say blatenly that JAH told him it is okay to smoke herb?

No, I shouldn't.

So the rejoice is not in JAH talking, but in what is said that JAH said.

Quote:
So I am wondering if you would encourage some one to continue when his INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE has told him not to?


I most certainly would not be so enthousiastioc when someobedy says JAH told him this or that. This has to be taken VERY serious, checked and double checked.

If it is not JAH who said what the brother said JAH told him, then this brother is bound to fall in some really serious addiction. Think about it.

Quote:
Is that what you are saying or are you saying that you just have smoking in common?


I have not much "in common". I'm not posting here about myself having some kind of cannabis use, addictive or not. Neither do I calim that JAH told me that smoking herb is bad for me. For me this is the subject of a reasoning, not a public confession room.

Quote:

I have never once heard a "voice" telling me to do something good for me!


I have. And I do not take these things lightly. I know JAH speaks to all. But before you go and tell in public that JAH said something to you, you must be really carefull. Berean sense!

Quote:
And you your self have said that you don't encourage people to start.


Where do I encourage anybody to start when I state that it might be possible people rejoicing when others claim JAH told them to stop (which is not allways the opposite of "start"), are not rejoicing because we have a speaking God, but because this God was speaking their thing. Feel me?

This is an option to consider in the Berean Tradition.

Quote:
So I am wondering if you would encourage some one to continue when his INDIVIDUAL EXPERIENCE has told him not to?


Again, I was responding to the "JAH Voice" aspect of it all primarily. I also do not know this particular brother or his situation. I do know the tremendous pressure from the churchical system to disable people from being able to potentionaly smoke up some thing.
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2004 09:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

First off, if someone comes out and says "I have an addiction" I recognize that as a serious problem that needs to be dealt with physically and psychologically. It doesn't matter what the addiction is. My experience there is not the same. I said my experience was somewhat similar because He has also claimed that God asked him to stop and he is trying to heed his call. According to what I read it seems as if he is still dealing with it and I encouraged the brother to continue to listen to God, not to me, the church, rastafari or anything.

MD, it concerns me that you seem to speak out against encouraging a brother in Christ. I am responding to what he wrote. I can take what he said as a fact or as lies. I am in no position to question how he heard God and wether or not it was God or no. I seriously doubt that he would go that far to say something that was not true. There is nothing he said that indicated he was influenced by some anti-herb-with-no-just-cause Christians.

Quote:
I most certainly would not be so enthousiastioc when someobedy says JAH told him this or that. This has to be taken VERY serious, checked and double checked.

If it is not JAH who said what the brother said JAH told him, then this brother is bound to fall in some really serious addiction. Think about it.


And how do you propose that is done? Are you the one to make the final decision? Do you know his spiritual connection with God? I just think that you are being pessimistic and a bit over analytical about something that you really cannot prove. I can't prove it either but I made the choice to respond positively and not to scoff at his comments.
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2004 14:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolpoete wrote:
MD, it concerns me that you seem to speak out against encouraging a brother in Christ. I am responding to what he wrote. I can take what he said as a fact or as lies. I am in no position to question how he heard God and wether or not it was God or no. I seriously doubt that he would go that far to say something that was not true. There is nothing he said that indicated he was influenced by some anti-herb-with-no-just-cause Christians.


No?

I haven't seen one remark that actually pointed out to what JAH orders us in the Bible, to check the words. Not to take anything just like the word of God simply because it is claimed what you like. And I am not talking about the person, but about those who responded to what he said.

You are not aware of the enormous influence the churchical system can have on one person, even to the extend this person might actually think JAH "asks" (JAH no ask, JAH tell!) this person to do a certain thing. Especially when there is no real discernment, this is a thing which happens. And it has nothing to do with the genuiity of the brother. I am not suggesting he is lieing.

The Bible actually orders everyone who hears another one say: "JAH told me this or that" to actually CHECK whether that is so. Even, perhapes ESPECIALLY, when the statement supposedly from JAH is saying something that tickles our ears.

I'm not against encouraging a brother in Christ. Ofcourse not! That's not what I suggested. I was wondering whether this actually was encouraging a brother in Christ.

Quote:
Quote:
I most certainly would not be so enthousiastioc when someobedy says JAH told him this or that. This has to be taken VERY serious, checked and double checked.

If it is not JAH who said what the brother said JAH told him, then this brother is bound to fall in some really serious addiction. Think about it.


And how do you propose that is done?


You are not aware of the biblical commandment to CHECK EVERYTHING and KEEP THE GOOD (a verse only to be applied for prophecies)? The Bereans checked the scriptures. John tells us to test the spirits.

Fall into serious addiction? That is refering to the church system. Suppose someone came up the the brother and told him "The Almighty says to me he says to you to stop". The brother tries to stop and all that, thinking he is is doing the Lord's will. But it doesn't work so he goes back to the prophet to hear what JAH has to say about that. And before you knoew it this person is addicted to magical thinking and depending on socalled prophets. You are saying you have never heard of happenings like this taking place?


Quote:
Are you the one to make the final decision?


Yes. For myself. Yes. Like JAH ordered us all. Yes.

Quote:
Do you know his spiritual connection with God? I just think that you are being pessimistic and a bit over analytical about something that you really cannot prove. I can't prove it either but I made the choice to respond positively and not to scoff at his comments.


Scoffing? Since when is testing the spirits "scoffing"? It actually is a biblical commandment to check and test. It's not "nothing", we speak here about the Almighty saying something to a person.

Am I scoffing? When I am, I am scoffing about a serious lack of critical discernment which by the way is a gifft of the Spirit. So go ahead and call it "scoffing". I call it Berean Sense.

Sure you "made the choice to respond positive", simply because it appeals to you what he says. But that is not the standards which our discernment has to follow.

No, I do not know "his connection with JAH". Do you? Another reason for me not to jump up and rejoice over something he says JAH told him.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 01 Feb 2004 19:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am sorry Jetze but this guys desire to be free from Weed is totally in line with Scripture EVEN IF it is not a sin!

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,


If he WANTS to stop and cannot as a Christian it is a weight that is hindering his walk with God.
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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 03:33    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ofcourse. And the weight, how is it put there? Is it put there by JAH, or by the system? Why is THAT question not asked? Only because the brother is saying a thing that supports people in their own stance?

Would you go for the same responses if someone would tell you JAH told him or her that it is okay for him or her to smoke herb? Or would you ask the question if this man or woman is really sure it is the voice of JAH? Be honest That is the issue I adress.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 03:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I would ask that question because I have never seen even one instance of God telling some one to do something that is harmful to their body. So yes I would question it.

What I am asking is this... if Ty says he is addicted, and wants to stop for WHAT EVER reason why have you not come out and said something like Ty I will pray that God will help you? Is that stance SO contrary to the stance that you have of liberty? This Brother has expressed that he wants to stop but is not finding the strength in himself and you are questioning if it was God who REALLY told him to stop. You are not addicted? GOOD Praise God. You can stop anytime you want. Good Praise God. Ty has expressed that he hasn't been able on his own. Are we to be BOUND BY ANYTHING? Is his bondage not genuine enough for you to have some compassion on? Jetze in all honesty you are eroding your stand on this subject. You are going way past the stand of liberty for the indivdual and going into saying it is good for all.
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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 14:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaminack wrote:
Yes, I would ask that question because I have never seen even one instance of God telling some one to do something that is harmful to their body. So yes I would question it.


Okay, thanks. Now I have seen many instances in which people were saying all kinds of thing on herb or whatever, and JAH told them this or that. And nobody asked the question: "Is it really JAH speaking?" A serious thing.

Ofcourse you would question it and you have every right to do so. That is what the Bible tells us to do. To CHECK. It takes courage and trust to check also when JAH says a thing that tickles your ear so to speak. Then you still gotta check too. And I do not see many people practising that biblical commandment.

What I see is the brother said something that you agree with and therefore you don't question if it is really JAH speaking to him. And that is what I adress.

Quote:
What I am asking is this... if Ty says he is addicted, and wants to stop for WHAT EVER reason why have you not come out and said something like Ty I will pray that God will help you?


Okay, fair enough. I have seen many instances in which people who are smoking herb they go to a church or whatever, some christians telling him that he doesn't want herb, that he is addicted, that he is inviting legions of demons in every draw he takes, and more of that. Now the force of the christians around him may force him to say certain things like: "I'm addicted and I can't stop", or "Weed is a sin and you will go to hell if you do it". This can even come to a climax in which it is said that also the MOST HIGH says to stop.

I'm not talking about the brother per se, could be that I am, could be that I don't. I do not know that. But I do know that I will not be so enthousiastic all the time when someone comes and says JAH told them something.

Quote:
Is that stance SO contrary to the stance that you have of liberty?


It's not when it's really JAH speaking to him, it is when JAH is not speaking to him.

I know the tremendous pressure that can come out of the churchical system and it can make people think things about themselves which are not even true neccesarily.


Quote:
This Brother has expressed that he wants to stop but is not finding the strength in himself and you are questioning if it was God who REALLY told him to stop.


Yes. Because of a couple of reasons.

-1- The Holy Spirit CONVINCES of sin. When the Holy Spirit convinces of sin, He also gives the power to stop. If JAH tells someone to do a certain thing He gives the strength also. If you don't have the strength, maybe JAH doesn't want you to do so.

-2- The Bible tells us that EVERYTIME someone comes and says in a public setiing that JAH told them this or that, we are ordered to check this. Even if it tickles our ears. Especially when it tickles our ears. Like it tickles your ears to heart someone saying JAH told them to stop herb. Because you like what you read it doesn't come into you that perhaps JAH did not say that whereas when someone would come and say JAH told them this or that, contrary to what you feel, you admit you would have checked THAT. How do you respond to people who say JAH told them reggae music is wrong?

-3- I know how the pressure from the churchical system can lead people into saying and believing certain things.

I know this guy, he was on the stage in the church telling 1000's of people how he was addicted to weed and how JAH freed him and this and that. So his non-smoking was very well connected with his christianity, okay? After a while he started smoking again. He lost his faith as far as i know. Simply becausde he couldn't hold up to what he thought was neccesary in order to be a christian. Do you realize the danger I see potentialy?

What when the brother here would be like the example above? I don't know him, I don't know the people he deals with, so the possibility of what I described above is real and when it would become reality in the brother's life, you would actually be a part of the guilt in that.

Quote:
You are not addicted? GOOD Praise God. You can stop anytime you want. Good Praise God. Ty has expressed that he hasn't been able on his own.


I never said if I smoke or not. I simply have a stance on it, and I can explain with argumentation why I think what I think. I can tell you that I smoked and not smoked and I had this stance which I have now because I know it is not about me.


Quote:
Are we to be BOUND BY ANYTHING? Is his bondage not genuine enough for you to have some compassion on?


I simply do not accept it when someone says that they are addicted to herb just because this someone says so. I see a lot of reasons as to why this brother could come to say a thing like that and only one of them is that he would actually be addicted. I want to "weed out" (to quote the brother) everything else before I can make up my mind.

Quote:
Jetze in all honesty you are eroding your stand on this subject. You are going way past the stand of liberty for the indivdual and going into saying it is good for all.


No I don't.

This is only partialy about herb. It's more about: "how do we respond when someone says JAH told them this-or-that". Why do we respond positively when it is said JAH said something which we like, and why do we not respond positively when JAH would have said a thing which we do not like? Why are we not checking the first time and only the second time?
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 18:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why are we not the first time? That is ludicris! Your stance has been about personal experience. If God told him to stop that should be between him and God. Did he say that God told him every one needs to quit or start or shove the weed up their noses? No, He believes that God wants him to stop. That is why I say that your stance on liberty is slipping. You just seem to want liberty to indulge in it, not liberty from it if one feels compelled to do so.

This is exactly why I feel that the line that some want to draw between weed and harder drugs is arbitrary. They want folks to believe that no one can be addicted to weed. Why? This weakens the claims that the Pro-Dope folks want for us to think.

Your statements about addiction are ONLY partially correct. Yes the Holy Spirit does give the power of addictions, but He does not go against your will.

I was seriously bound by addiction to Porn for 15 years. All that time the Holy Spirit convicting me. Pleading, pushing and never letting the issue rest. All the while I "said that I wanted to stop". But the power to stop never came until I meant what I said. What ever the cost I want freedom. It came and I am free. Why? Because of true repentance. Repentance from what? Sin. My Sin. You said your self that sin is when we do something God does not want. That is what Ty is saying. He wants freedom because he believes God wants him to be free. Now yes, when his desire is God's desire he will find more power over it than he could imagine. Do you really have a problem with the idea that Ty may be hearing from God on this issue? Why?

You are railing against the Churchical stand against weed. But there is good reasons for the stand. But of course you have rejected those on the basis of personal experience. Yet you question Ty's experiences...

Have you asked Ty if the pressure to quit is coming from his friends? I firmly believe that his friends from Church know very little about it. Why, because sin is done in darkness and in hiding. I think Ty would tell you it is his heart that is agreeing with the Holy Spirit compelling him to quit, not some over zealous Bible Thumper.
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