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HERB IS THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS
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DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO RESEARCH THE FACTS?
OF COURSE, BROTHA
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 84%  [ 11 ]
NAHH I'M SO COMFY HERE ANYWAY
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Total Votes : 13

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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 18:51    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If God told him to stop that should be between him and God.


True.

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Did he say that God told him every one needs to quit or start or shove the weed up their noses? No, He believes that God wants him to stop.


True.

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That is why I say that your stance on liberty is slipping.


You miss my point, I think.

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You just seem to want liberty to indulge in it, not liberty from it if one feels compelled to do so.


I can see why you think this, because it is your interpertetation of what I said. I am sorry for my lack of ability to spell it out.

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This is exactly why I feel that the line that some want to draw between weed and harder drugs is arbitrary. They want folks to believe that no one can be addicted to weed. Why? This weakens the claims that the Pro-Dope folks want for us to think.


You're focusing on the wrong aspect of what I am trying to get across.

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Your statements about addiction are ONLY partially correct. Yes the Holy Spirit does give the power of addictions, but He does not go against your will.


I disagree with that. I think that JAH works the will in us. I think so because the Bible say so. I know about the struggles between our new spirit and our not new flesh. I know how our flesh can tempt us to commit the most terrible sins. And sometimes babylon encourages these things that we see as sin and this makes it all harder. Sometimes we fall, but our will is good. Because of our flesh it is that we struggle stumble and sometimes fall in sin. Not because of our spirit. And our spirit is born of JAH , when you are born again through Christ. Meaning our spirit can not sin. So when we sin, this is because of the flesh.

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Do you really have a problem with the idea that Ty may be hearing from God on this issue? Why?


No. I have a problem with some of the issues that come with it. It's not even about the brother Ty. Don't get me wrong.

All I am doing is this. I am saying that in this world where we live, the following situation is very possible:

Man smokes. No problem. Chruch comes and tell him: you a sinner. Man think when church say so JAH must say so. Man stops to smoke. Man starts again to smoke. Man get confused for wasn't JAH with him before? Other Christian comes and say: you are smoking again. You must have a will to commit sin. Man read in the Bible: "What is born out of Jah can not sin". Man get really confused now. Man loses faith....

Do you think the above scenarion is nonsens? If you think it is possible, don't you feel like you should incorporate this possibility in whatever conclusion you make?
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dreadedheart



Joined: 14 Jan 2004
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Location: norcal

PostPosted: 02 Feb 2004 22:29    Post subject: thanks friends Reply with quote

i hear you all. i had to read this thread a few tiimes...theres a lot of info here. blaminick, you are right on. i talked to you in more depth the other day about it so, of course, you are going to have more info on this current situation. thank you for your encouragment and prayers by the way.
m.d., just 3 weeks ago i would have loved what you were saying here, in fact i would argue similar views with christian friends of mine. i tryed very hard to convince my friends and i that it was ok as long as you "felt" it was ok and as long as you dont do drugs (not weed). i would tell people that i didnt feel called to quit yet; and i didnt, but there was something missing in my walk with God. something in the way. He showed me it was my addiction and dependence on weed that is keeping Him and I apart. (if you want specifics pm me(it wasnt audible)). you have some intriging arguements, ones i would have loved to use. but i have since stopped trying to justify it and attempted to stop. now is when i realize i cant!! what kind of freedom is that? i figured out, from the lack of fruits on my spiritual tree, i cant smoke and be right with God. its wasnt my pastor (though i would love to talk w/ him about this) or my church body, it was simple self reflection and lack of happiness in my life. the Holy spirit is there, take heed! God is being clear with me, that is why i know i will have the power to stop, if He is not being clear about this with you then thats cool...i am not going to say just because i cant you cant. but your comments on this thread may be leading some brothers to stummble. i really enjoyed reading that many posts on this subject (sorry if i created a tangent) much love to all, ty
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2004 09:12    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmph!! Copy and Paste works folks!! If you have a long post, copy it before you hit submit!

MD, I agree with your system of checks to validate God's voice. When I first used to hear about Christians being convicted of God I used to think to myself "well, why doesn't he speak to me that way and just tell me what to do? I would be better off and not have to make mistakes." I had to learn God's voice in my stint with smoking.

Like I said before when I started you couldn't tell me I was doing something wrong. I had arguments with theologians that tried to convince me that smoking was a sin. They could not bring any scriptural proof, as we have reasoned here as well. I believe that God had to bring me through the "fire" in order for me to not only hear but understand his willl. You hear God's voice, then you disobey, then he gives you the reality check that shakes you. At that point you quit. For some it's weed, for others its hard drugs, or sex, or other addictions.

All of this time when God was talking to me I was not consulting with the church or being influenced by friends to stop. Even afterwards it was something that I did not want anyone else to know about because I did not want to be ridiculed. God spoke to me again and told me to put my experiences on my site and it took alot of deep meditating and fighting against him not to do it right away. I learned how to listen to God's voice and I decided that I was not going to ignore it anymore like I did before so I did and like the saying goes "the truth shall set you free."

It takes alot of GUTS to come out and say "I was addicted to porn" in this churchical system that you refer to. The truth of the matter is that we can't prove some things biblically and that scares alot of the conservatives who don't want to hear the truth but want things to flow like it has always been. Maybe your arguments do sound "pro-herb" and that's not true?. Maybe you think that the Christians out here jump to conclusions on things without checking and inquiring but that's not all together true either.

All I'm saying is He who feels it knows it.. for real.. dreadedheart, bill, myself, some others.. when I read their experiences they all add up to what I went through. I went through years of being a Christian and not knowing what God's voice is. Trust me.. I've checked.

As for those "do as I say and not as I do" christians who say smoking is a sin without knowing the experience of smoking, there is something to be said about what they say as well. It is true: If you heed the words and not go to the club or drink or smoke you would not expose your body or your mind to certain harmful elements. This does not mean that not having those experiences means you're going to get a "get to heaven free" card. Everyone has their point of learning and growing and struggling with God. All have sinned and come short of the glory.
Quote:

Man smokes. No problem. Chruch comes and tell him: you a sinner. Man think when church say so JAH must say so. Man stops to smoke. Man starts again to smoke. Man get confused for wasn't JAH with him before? Other Christian comes and say: you are smoking again. You must have a will to commit sin. Man read in the Bible: "What is born out of Jah can not sin". Man get really confused now. Man loses faith....


How do you finish off the story? Do you think if the man had any kind of motivation to read the bible first of all, he would question what the church told him and question God? I believe that God has placed us as help-aids to others. What about "Man comes across LOZ or Dubroom or CoolPoet's websites and starts to pray and listen to God and asks for help on discussion boards. What would you then say to this man? If 10 people come out and say "God is great, keep listening and praying etc." that does not mean that everyone has jumped to conclusions without thinking. This is precisely why I kept my initial response to dreadedheart so short. I do recognize what you are saying though.

I had a problem with my site earlier on that I did not state that I was a Christian or a Rasta and people questioned me about it constantly. So what should I believe? How do I become a Rasta? I say it's a problem because if you don't stand for what you believe people can be influenced in the wrong way, especially those who are looking to sites like ours for answers. I almost thought that if you could read everything about Rasta and Christianity you would have so much to think about and consider that the only other person you would need to help you is God. But (un)fortunately PEOPLE make their own choices (instead of letting God) and make mistakes. They fall, God picks them up and cleans them off and helps them to make the right choices.

So the way I see things, if you are really searching for God he will find you no matter where you are.

(I think the 3 of us have drained this thread of it's original topic!)
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2004 13:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

True words all the way around!
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2004 15:22    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
m.d., just 3 weeks ago i would have loved what you were saying here.....


Only three weeks?

Quote:
i would tell people that i didnt feel called to quit yet; and i didnt, but there was something missing in my walk with God. something in the way.


No, my argumentation is not the same as yours. Let me elaborate, please. I notice the word "yet" in your reasoning, which totally changes the whole stance and opinnion. It implies a theory that JAH has to "call" someone to quit and until that time it's okay to do it. It shows that you in yourself were far from being happy with smoking it, you saw/see it as a situation in which a change had to come anyway. I hope you feel me here. Even if you for yourself had not the idea that you had to stop one time, the word "yet" will give people the thought that the idea that people have to stop in itself was not questioned by you.

I this context, your next step and the way you describe it is perfectly logical. In yourself you were allready convinced that -at least for you- it was neccesary to stop, and I'm sure you had reasons for that.

Now, to the "stumble" aspect. Ofcourse my words can be twisted and changed around so people can say that they smoke because messian dread say so. They said about our Lord and Saviour that he was a windrinker and among prostitutes and sinners. But I am not going to change my mind or change my words to cater to hypocrites looking for a reason to justify herb for a chruchical system. Equally, I would say that the words of my opponents-in-debate (but Idren in identity) can lead people to stop using their freedoms and get into a serious state of what we call "cramp". Bound by rules that JAH JAH never gave them in the first place. This can seriously impact your view on the Most High, especially in the long run.

Because JAH says clearly, that where HE is, there IS Liberty. Kind of like JAH is Light and where He Is There Is Light. Jah IS Liberty.

I am against the stance that says it is allways wrong for people to smoke herb. There are too many different situational contexts and there are situations where not one argument applies. So these people should be let in freedom that they have. Agreed?

I am against the stance that says herbsmoking is allways good for everyone too. Many arguments have passed the revue here allready...

For me it matters, that people follow JAH and not use or use not herb simply because the church say so or the local hippie say so. And I see people rejoicing over stuff they agree with, not questioning at all if it is really JAH saying so (and it isn't, from what I read in your story), simply because it's in their street so to speak. And that is a thing which I don't really see as something not to critisize.

I would love to have some personal correspondence with you, but I have not so much time and I am not into going public on personal things. I do hope that this thread and others will helkp people to make up their own minds. Most people here represent the stance (is stand a better word?) that it's wrong to do so. Let the argumentation we all have speak for themselves.

If people want from me a reason to smoke because they can't think of a reason for themselves, I'm not like that. But you have to see everything in the context of the discussions here.

CP (I know about ctrl-C by the way)

Quote:
Like I said before when I started you couldn't tell me I was doing something wrong. I had arguments with theologians that tried to convince me that smoking was a sin. They could not bring any scriptural proof, as we have reasoned here as well. I believe that God had to bring me through the "fire" in order for me to not only hear but understand his willl. You hear God's voice, then you disobey, then he gives you the reality check that shakes you. At that point you quit. For some it's weed, for others its hard drugs, or sex, or other addictions


I know that sometimes things happen a bit like what you describe here. One side remark, is that when there is no scriptural proof this means other principals have to be applied and I have come to the conclusion that these things do not allways apply over all the weed smokers. I might or might not be speaking about my own situation too, but that is not the point. The point is that I have come to realize this over the years that I observed smokers...

Quote:
Quote:
Man smokes. No problem. Chruch comes and tell him: you a sinner. Man think when church say so JAH must say so. Man stops to smoke. Man starts again to smoke. Man get confused for wasn't JAH with him before? Other Christian comes and say: you are smoking again. You must have a will to commit sin. Man read in the Bible: "What is born out of Jah can not sin". Man get really confused now. Man loses faith....
How do you finish off the story? Do you think if the man had any kind of motivation to read the bible first of all, he would question what the church told him and question God? I believe that God has placed us as help-aids to others.


Ofcourse man had to search out the scriptures for themselves. Ofcourse man has to think for man's self. That's why I say, the church telling him that he is a sinner where he didn't think like that himself. He didn't read it in the Bible. When he read the Bible he didn't read anything that applied to his smoking herb. But churchical pressure can be very heavy and people can easily become dependant on the opinnion of others in this system. And when people believe it is a sin because the system makes them believe it is a sin, and they read "what is born of JAH can not sin", they might be finding themselves in a very serious situation.

Quote:
What about "Man comes across LOZ or Dubroom or CoolPoet's websites and starts to pray and listen to God and asks for help on discussion boards. What would you then say to this man?


I would hopefully talk to him personally, by private email. When he would post something in a "pray for me" board. But here, in a discussion, I would "treat" his posting like a contribution in the discussion. That's just me, though....

Quote:
If 10 people come out and say "God is great, keep listening and praying etc." that does not mean that everyone has jumped to conclusions without thinking. This is precisely why I kept my initial response to dreadedheart so short.


And I think my counter-weight helped placing everything in a better perspective too. I would not have written what I wrote when the replies were not there or when the replies would have been different. I realize, though, that I might treat this all more as a debate/discussion then some here.

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I do recognize what you are saying though.


Seen.

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I had a problem with my site earlier on that I did not state that I was a Christian or a Rasta and people questioned me about it constantly.


And I bet most of them were Christians that wanted to know how "acceptable" you are in their views. Unbelievable...
I draw a different audience I think. I also make it clear that I'm not into seperating Rastafari and Christianity.

Quote:
I say it's a problem because if you don't stand for what you believe people can be influenced in the wrong way, especially those who are looking to sites like ours for answers.


I'm NOT into influencing people, with the expetion of that I'd like to influence people to love DUB REGGAE. I'm into sharing my own thoughts, I'm into people thinking for themselves. I do receive a lot of mails from people who are happy that they found in my writings an expression of what was in their own thinking as well and they are happy that it is also written down somewhere on the Internet.

Quote:
(I think the 3 of us have drained this thread of it's original topic!)


Eeehhh............
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gospelkid



Joined: 18 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2004 18:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

excuse me, let me understand this...herbs healing of the nation.......how???
medicine uses extract from all kind of plants and herbs.....but where does a doctor prescibe his patient to smoke it????
isnt that the typical act of man...gratifying the flesh like going lapdancing looking at other people's woman..or in the case of them being single.

once again some topics only have one answer....to a believer in christ it can only be jesus as a healer for the nation...
and for a nonbeliever its a flesh reation....i find the whole topic funny...seriously how can one try to defend gunja smoking or pot taking...or whatever term you want to use.....all christians knows what thier spiritual leader would have to say on this matter.....its not a problem in the church...or is it????
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JAH SON



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
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Location: IN ZION WITH SHILOH

PostPosted: 05 Feb 2004 01:28    Post subject: Reply with quote

GOSPELKID: I HAVE A FRIEND WHO LIVES IN CALIFORNIA WHO WAS PERSCRIBED BY HIS DOCTOR TO SMOKE FOR HIS ANXIETY.

BOTTOM LINE: MAN HAS SMOKED CANNABIS SINCE ADAM AND GOD HASN'T SAID A DAM THING TO CURSE IT. ONLY BLESS. MAN CURSES IT. TO JUDGE ME FOR SMOKING WOULD BE LIKE ME JUDGING CHRISTIANS FOR LETTING WOMEN SPEAK IN CHURCHES WHEN THE BIBLE CLEARLY SPEAKS AGAINST IT.
WAS SITTING BULL DOING GOD'S WILL WHEN HE SMOKED AND DANCED ALL DAY AND NIGHT BEFORE HIS PEOPLE GOT MURDERED BY BABYLON? FOOLISH JUDGES.. JUDGE FOR YOURSELF WHETHER IT BE RIGHT TO JUDGE. WWJD? MAYBE NOT EXACTLY WHAT CAESARMINDTRICK-FED EVANGELISTICS ARE TRAINED TO.

2ND BOTTOM LINE: STOP BUYING WEED!!!! LIKE I SAID IN BABYLON'S TRICKE-DOWN SYSTEM, THE $$$ IS GOING RIGHT BACK TO THEM. LONG TIME THEY KNOW THIS AND THAT'S WHY THEY WOULD ARREST YOU IF YOU GROW IT YOURSELF. I WOULD CALL IT SHEER HYPOCRACY FOR THEM TO "LEGALLY" GROW IT BUT WE CAN'T. "GET UP, STAND UP! STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS!" I KNOW TO SOME OF YOU GROOMED HERE IN BABYLON, EARTH MATTERS DON'T MATTER TO YOU, BUT THEY DO TO GOD. (REAL LOVE)


MAY GOD ALMIGHTY BLESS YOU(I&I) TO BE FREE FROM THE ADDICTIVE CHAINS OF BABYLON'S WEED, IN THE NAME OF THE TRUE CHRIST.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2004 01:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that it is quite likely that Babylon may have played the ultimate trick on you!!! How? He has convinced you to slowly kill your intellignce level off by killing brain cells. This is exactly like the KKK supporting gang violence. Less Brain cells= Less Brain washing needed to control a generation of pot heads.
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