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HERB IS THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS
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DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO RESEARCH THE FACTS?
OF COURSE, BROTHA
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 84%  [ 11 ]
NAHH I'M SO COMFY HERE ANYWAY
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 12:21    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaminack wrote:
No you STILL do not get it! I don't agree with the system. I hate the system, but my manner of dealing with it is uplifting and practical whereas yours but young black men at risk while it is still here..


Okay. Let me summarize you. Just to check if I get it this time. The "but" in the quoted sentence should be "put", right?

You say that because babylon uses the prohibition it is best not to smoke, yet you agree with babylon that it is prohibited, right? When you agree with the prohibition or not, this is regardless whether you smoke or not.

I say people should be able to make their choice. Also drugs should be legalized for the simple reason most criminality will be gone.

There is only one reason why babylon keeps drugs illegal while she ships in the drugs in the same time: it is used as a means of control. When drugs are legalized babylon loses this power and people will actually haver the chance to make sometrhing of their life.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 15:24    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetze,

You are aimply missing the point. You seem to not understand that there could be great freedom in life with out the need to smoke. That is where we fundementaly differ.

I, and most folks I know have freedom FROM Ganja and would never think that freedom to smoke is a good idea.

The deal with Babylon is one of simple economics. It is all supply and demand. They won't legalize it here because the prohibition is too lucrative.

As a matter of fact there is a move to criminalize tobbaco...

The only way to defeat Babylon under the current system is to stay away from from Ganja.

You still think that Babylon really doesn't want you to smoke... You are still not getting the reverse psychology involved. Ok I'll cover this one more time.

They say don't but really mean do it! Here is why....

It keeps young men who are potenial leaders in jail.
It keeps homes of young black folks broken.
It dumbs down these same people so that they cannot succed in the social areas of life.
It keeps them poor and dependant on Gov. programs.
Essentially it makes them slaves...

This is simple economics. They are trying to destroy and control...

Your answer is to legalize, whice is foolsih because there is a REAL slippery slop involved in decriminalizing things. When you start you cannot stop. Before long anything goes. They say ok marijuana today but tommorow Heroin and anyother destructive substance...

This is PLAINLY seen in the example of abortion and it's effect on us... Now they are pushing for Pysician assisted suicide. There was a case of a teenager that killed his and his girlfriends baby as soon as it was born. They got away with it on the basis that they said they were trying to perform an abortion... They instead of recieving a Murder conviction receive a Practicing Medicine without a liscence conviction. Now you are likely saying what does this have to do with legalizing weed? Because if you legalize weed you have to eventually legalize Date Rape drugs. THE VERY SAME ARGUMENTS APPLY TO ALL DRUGS NO MATTER HOW HARD OR SOFT. When you step across that line the is not place to stop...

THE ONLY WAY TO STAY AWAY FROM BABYLON'S INTENTION FOR THESE YOUNG PEOPLE IS TO ABSTAIN!!!!

Just look at the area of sex in the USA.... What has happen to the teen pregnancy rates here since Babylon has started giving out condoms?

Did you know that in many places the teen pregnancy rate of black girls is twice the rate of white girls for the same area? Why is this? Is to lergly due to that same STAT that I gave earlier... Black men are convicted at twice the rate of whites... The leadership is being silenced!!!! The saddest part is for the largest extent that they could have choosen to stay away from Babylons plan of destruction, not smoking or playing a part in the game...

Oh and by the way teen pregnancy is one of the largest indicators of future poverty along with single parent homes... Both of which are created by the Babylon system, that you will cry out against. How are you not? You want to let people continue (legally) in the same things that got them to this place. The ONLY MORAL thing to do is to cry out for people to stop. Leave Babylon stuck in it's own plan.... Do you know that my way of looking at this totally leaves Babylon broke? It is a matter of economics. Can you imagine if Babylon had to lay off it's Drug enforcment personell because there was no more business? No more lifes being ruined. No more homes being broken.

The differance between you and I is one of Utopian dreams.... Unfortunatlly neither my plan nor yours will come to pass in our life times. But mine has the better hope...

Will people die if they stop smoking it? (From the change of course) Or will people likely die if they continue to smoke? From it's side effects yes... legal and other wise.
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 16:07    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You are aimply missing the point.


No, I'm not. I have a different opinnion plus a different focus on what I consider to be really important. I consider liberty to be really important.


Quote:
You seem to not understand that there could be great freedom in life with out the need to smoke. That is where we fundementaly differ.


No we don't. I am saying that I do not need babylon to tell me if it is okay for me to smoke or smoke not. You are saying babylon is in her right prohibiting the use of ganja.

Quote:
I, and most folks I know have freedom FROM Ganja and would never think that freedom to smoke is a good idea.


And that is why you say the war on drugs is okay. You are actually endorsing it. By this you are willing to fascistically impose your opinnion on herb smoking on other people, because you support the war on drugs.

The freedom what you call freedom is double-speak. The freedom is only there when all the possibilities are there. But you are saying that babylon does not give the possibility to smoke (war on drugs) and you say that is good.


Quote:
The deal with Babylon is one of simple economics. It is all supply and demand. They won't legalize it here because the prohibition is too lucrative.


And because many people actually buy the propaganda crap that comes with the war on drugs. If people would take action against tyranny (war on drugs is tyranny is fascism is communism) there would be liberty.

Quote:
The only way to defeat Babylon under the current system is to stay away from from Ganja.


As I noticed the word "dung" is permitted here? Well, that is my answer: "dung". You do not defeat babylon system by not smoking herb and thus give yourself the illusion that they won't get you. You defeat babylon system by abolishing that system. By putting it away. Not by obeying the system.

Quote:
Your answer is to legalize, whice is foolsih because there is a REAL slippery slop involved in decriminalizing things. When you start you cannot stop. Before long anything goes. They say ok marijuana today but tommorow Heroin and anyother destructive substance...


Ofcourse it is better to legalize all drugs. What cause the absolute majority of "crimes"? Who are the most in the population of the privatized jail industry? It's all black people and it's all related to drugs. This must be stopped.

When drugs are legal, the mafia will not have the profit they have now. The criomes will not be there either. Addicts can focus on trying to get their lifes somewhat straight. Black People do not have to fear that everytime druygs is planted in their houses. That police comes and scare the dung out of little children with big dogs.

Drugs causes problems. Most of these problems are related to the fact that the prohibition is there. And being used very selectively, I might add. The other problems are related to social, psychological and that kind of circumstances.

Quote:
THE ONLY WAY TO STAY AWAY FROM BABYLON'S INTENTION FOR THESE YOUNG PEOPLE IS TO ABSTAIN!!!!


You also say, that by not smoking herb you give babylon no reason to get you. That is ofcourse absurd. If they can not get you on herb charges, they will get you on others. Your own line of thinking....

Quote:
The differance between you and I is one of Utopian dreams.... Unfortunatlly neither my plan nor yours will come to pass in our life times. But mine has the better hope...


I say that babylon will fall and Jah Jah will rule physically. I call that PROPHECY. You call it Utopia, I call it JUSTICE! I do not endorse the war on drugs, it is criminal. No christian should support it because it goes against everything that JAH JAH teaches us: liberty, love and justice!
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 18:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what you are saying is the when Jah returns we are all gonna be sitting around doing drugs? Come on. Your system IS oppression not freedom. Your thinking on this is muddied by the anything goes culture of the World. Think about the saying of Alister Crowley.... Do as thou wilt. Why do you endorse this point of view with this so called Libertarian Propaganda? Jetze freedom is not the ability to choose death! It is the ability to choose life. Are not the ones that want to smoke already doing it? YES! But they are pawns in this Babylon system. You have wrongly accused me of buying into this system but it is you who have been fooled by not shunning the worldly ways of these last days. Smoking Ganja is freedom?

I say tear down Babylon by not being pawns... you say tear it down by playing a part in their plan... Go figure.

When Christ returns will there be Heroin addicts in that kingdom who will not repent? Niether will there be weed smokers who will not repent.
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mikeroots
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 22:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't been following this so closely lately, but if I may interject, I think we must be careful in how we discern what is JAH's will for us. Through the threads on this topic one can easily see that the hazards and detriments of smoking ganja far outweigh any benefits. You don't have to look far to see how much "freedom" has been abused and where the very exercise of this supposed freedom brings slavery.

I think Bill is absolutely right. And Jetze, I am not saying this simply because Bill's argument lines up with mine. To abstain from smoking ganja is the best thing anyone can do. There are so many traps that one can fall into- and many are set by the Babylon system. I can see it very clearly. Look at what coporations proudly present as the image of commercial hip-hop and even the bigger players in commercial reggae music- it's about fashion styles, profanity, slackness, drinking 40's, smoking weed (including blunts) and MANY PLAY RIGHT INTO IT. Of course- it looks cool so why not? And smoking weed is a major part of this lie that it is being bought and sold.

Look at the stigma of the dreadlocks Rasta...smoking a spliff. It's become a caricature. Is that what people want to be known for? Come on now. Just because some governments make it illegal does not make mean TO DO IT is working against the corrupted system. Smoking weed is just a part of the image which has been portrayed to opress primarily black people and yet some just play right into the set-up which the adversary has created to destroy people.

Through all the discussions- and I have tried to read everything carefully, I find arguments "for" smoking ganja to be very weak. Not that very good points haven't been made and not that Jetze (in particular) hasn't put a lot of thought and time into this but I just can't sit here when I weigh everything and tell someone that smoking ganja is good, should be allowed or whatever. In fact, the more I see and the more I think my feeling is quite the opposite.
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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2004 23:41    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really and truly think that the whole subject boils down to these few verses for the Christian...

1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.


At it's very highest use that anyone has given in consumption in any form Ganja is the popular thing of the world today. It caters to the flesh. The Spirit profits nothing from it's use.

Even if it is not sin, the fact that the secular and worldy are in love with it tells me that I should have nothing to do with it...

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


We have covered the Spiritual nature of this topic in another thread but this is starting to merge into what is the Biblical approach for the Christian.

So many will that I am just trying to fight down Herb... Hogwash! I am trying to lift people out of the snare that Babylon has people in.
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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2004 04:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So what you are saying is the when Jah returns we are all gonna be sitting around doing drugs?


No, I am saying that when JAH comes I don't want to be busy maintaining the very system that He''s going to destroy by bringing up all kinds of reverse reasoning to make people think that by not smoking they are actually fighting against babylon because then babylon supposedly can't put them in jail.

And why can't you make a differentiation between a plea for decriminalization of ganja and other drugs and excuses to actually smoke?

I am not like that. I am not trying to find justifying reasonings for people to smoke herb. I am stating my opinnion which is based on argumentation that I have researched in books, in reality and in myself. I made for myself a conclusion whether to smoke or not. But I made this choice in freedom, not caused by problems created by the very system that you claim to hate.

Quote:
Think about the saying of Alister Crowley.... Do as thou wilt.


Remember, you are speaking about my opinnion that it is better to legalize drus and that it is not allways a sin for all to smoke. How can you compare that with this saying? do you actually know what he ment with this? the freedom to kill people, even children, especially children, after brutally and pervertated raping them first and I won't go further but for you to compare that with my opinnion is out of context to say it polite.

Quote:
You have wrongly accused me of buying into this system but it is you who have been fooled by not shunning the worldly ways of these last days
.

You ARE buying the system cause you see use in the war on drugs cause it keeps some people from smoking and you take the "side effects" for granted. For you it is more important that someone does not smoke then that there are ma\ny in prisons that should not be in prisons. And you can see me in the grand last days delusion but I think you are making some serious mistakes in your reasoning.

Quote:
Smoking Ganja is freedom?


I never said that. I said people should have the opportunity to FREELY choose (not) to smoke it. You don't want people to have that choice. Appearantly you are not so sure that people are actually mature enough to choose. Appearantly you do not find it a big deal, the war on drugs.

If JAH seh that ganja is a sin, then we do not need no babylon law to say us that. We can find this out by simply growing up in Christ. This for you does not count, you count on the dungstem to do that job. Appearantly you don't know the power of Christ. Or you are not satisfied with the number of people that no longer smoke weed because they believe it to be a sin.

Quote:
I say tear down Babylon by not being pawns... you say tear it down by playing a part in their plan... Go figure.


Yeah, playing the part by smoking herb in order to become a perfect target for being the next victim in the war on drugs. I know what you are saying. Why don't you tell the system to back off? What do you do to tear down babylon anyway? A few posting ago you aid there is nothing to do since it is all going to stay the same anyway.

You can just not imagine that JAH is not so against weed as you are. And because you can not imagine it you support all efforts to downpress the people.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2004 05:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't say that I support any oppression. You never asked me what I think the consequences should be for smoking/possesing weed. You asked if I think it should be illegal. Yes I do. It is harmful. Do I support the war on drugs? No. Do I think it shouldbe illegal? Yes...

I think speeding in your car on the highway is and should be illegal. Do I think that some one should go to jail over it? Only if the case is extreme enough to warrant it. You have read WAY too much into what you think my opinion is.

Alister Crowley's quote? It has nothing to do with you but it totally applys to the libertine way of thinking because any law or rule that you set after a decriminaliztion of something is an imaginary line that will fall under scrutiny. Example given in the case of the teen who killed his baby and got off with practicing medicine with out a license.

Making a thing legal after it is illegal is promotion of it's use.

What am I doing to tear down Babylon? This very thread is smashing some serious lies that Babylon has spread.

I NEVER said to do nothing until Jah comes! That is totally out of context. I say do everything that is right to tear it down. But you and I both know it will only be dead after Christ returns. That is plain to see.

Are really serious about the idea that Jah is not upset with ganja abuse? That would make Him quite an unloving God. I hope that you don't see Him with such lack of compassion. How could I be more loving that Love it's self? That doesn't even make sense.

And I support NO downpression and that is exactly why I say for people never to start smoking in the first place.
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