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HERB IS THE HEALING OF THE NATIONS
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DO YOU CARE ENOUGH TO RESEARCH THE FACTS?
OF COURSE, BROTHA
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 84%  [ 11 ]
NAHH I'M SO COMFY HERE ANYWAY
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2004 13:44    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaminack wrote:
Jetze,

I believe that you do well to come and reason here. And think that those who would question you for doing so may realize that there stance on these issues are by no means as solid as yours and could not stand up to the debate.


Thank you for the welcome and for the overstanding that I am not having any bad intentions although it may seem so for some.

Quote:
So be congratulated for your intellectual honesty. I know that we don't agree more often than we do, but you are right that God is glorified in that I do consider you are great friend, (although a very hard headed one! LOL )


I think, as far as I'm relevant, I rather talk about differences then about things we agree on, because there is not so much to talk when everyone agrees. Then you get enormous long "i agree" postings which are only interesting to read for the people who wrote it in the first place. I also like to ask questions about things I do not understand too. And I know that you love our LORD and SAVIOUR, our CREATOR, the God of Abraham and the Father of our Divine Lord Yesus Kristos. This is the most important thing and therefore all other differences are secondary issue as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:
So many are afraid to do what you do because they are afraid that they really don't understand the issues. They know that they have bought propaganda instead of fact.


But it is great when people do realize they have been buying propagenda because which self-respecting person wants to parrot propaganda?
Following propaganda is not freedom, and indeed:

Quote:
Now to the issue.




You and I see liberty quite differantly. I see it like this...

Quote:
Rules are like a barrier rail on the balcony of a sky scraper. Though it may be small, a person can walk right out to the edge and feel secure. He can go out and enjoy the awesome view though high he has no fear. That is my idea of Liberty.


Bizarre.... So freedom is to walk within the rules? The sense of security cause by trusting the (giver of the) rules even though it doesn't mean the rules keep you safe, because the wind can't be ruled and when it comes and you are on the edge you still fall. Mind you I am not speaking about the GIVER of Rules with JAH in mind. JAH is my Rider too and I will do what He says.

Quote:
Your view of liberty takes away the Barrier rail. That person is not likely to go out and enjoy the view. The edge is still in the same place but your eye is on the edge where before it was the view. There is fear because you have lost the security of the railing. Before that rail brought a joy because of the freedom to go and enjoy in security. You knew exactly how far you could go in safety, but now you cannot approach the edge because you cannot tell which step is too far. Is the wind going to gust and blow against you? Is a clumsy person coming from inside? Could I slip? What about distractions that could trick me? With out the rail of rules there is no stability. The things that brought joy before are gone. They are replaced with fears and insecurity.


If I would change sky scraper into road, the analogy says something like: we are on our way to ZION, the Dwelling Place of JAH, on the narrow Road that is called Yesus Kristos, true? Now in order to not fall away from that road, the barrier rails are there, true? When JAH is the One Who put the barrier rails there, you will not hear me complain about any loss of any liberty. For where the Spirit (of JAH) is, the IS Liberty. Also JAH places as the opposite of disorder not order but peace. Paulus says: "Jah is not a God of disorder, but of PEACE".

I am not questioning that, in itself.

What I am questioning is, is this particular issue that we discuss part of this barrier rail that is placed there by JAH?

If it is not placed there by JAH as a sign for everyone, then there must be liberty in this. For when someone can do a thing and it is not a sin, then who is someone to judge the other one for doing it. Then the barrier rails are re-located and some people might even see that but since they are in the mind set that "barriere = good, for then I do not have to use my JAHgiven brains to think for myself", the road becomes more narrow then it is intended to be.

For me, the barriers also wouldn't make a difference, I wouldn't approach the side of a skyscrape building or road-side when there is a big gap into depth because I have extreme fear of heights ever since I was very young. I don't trust the barriere rail either (But this is just a side remark because of this particular analogy)

So in short, I am not questioning any rule that is given by JAH, I do question every rule that is NOT given by JAH and I analyse every rule of which I am not sure it is of JAH. I think this is a healthy attitude.

Quote:
Now this is NOT about taking away something that is a liberty. The Word is not plain on this issue. It is not cut and dry. If you were to say I know for absolute positive as to if this sin or not you would be mistaken. It is not clear. So why try to go through all this to try to make it seem ok when you really just do not know?


That goes in two ways, that reasoning. I could say the same. But then we wouldn't have a reasoning, debate or even conversation on this subject. a subject which proofed to be in the interest and attention of many many people. Many more then I expect!

Bottomline for me is, that (apart from the Roman13 and TempleBody argumentation) the arguments used in the discussion here would apply to some people, maybe most people, but not everyone. I draw conclusions from that, trying to use the two eyes, brains and what have you to try to find out not only what JAH says to me about it (I think I know what JAH says to me about my smoking herb or not), but try to find out some description of this matter that will incorporate or even consist out of a biblical approach, in the Spirit of JAH.

I know very well, this time in which I stopped smoking herb for a variety of reasons. I know how convinced I was on this action that "if it is good enough for me then it is good enough for you". I see this reflected in many contributions too. It's like I can not imagine how people can dislike Reggae Music. I really do not see any reason as to why people shouldn't love Reggae Music. Whenever I listen to or play (with) Reggae, I feel it in my soul and I can not imagine that people do not have that same feeling or wouldn't like that feeling. Now ofcourse, I know with my brains that there are friendly and kind people who do not like Reggae Music. I can not understand it but I do have to realize it. Reality around me forces me to accept this reality. Now after I stopped smoking herb I saw the people around me. I saw how the things that made me quit in that time were not present in the lifes of others. I talked intensly with these people, for many hours, weeks and months and years. I saw them growing in Christ in a way that I never see "in church" as they say. Some are like walking concordances and they apply the Biblical principals (which are JAH's PRINCIPALS) in their lifes.

Quote:
I have also noticed you don't defend the Rasta stance on Ganja... That is not at all the stance that you present. Would you take the same exact stand in front of them on your site? I know that you have the FAQ and some articles, but do you explain it in such terms as not sin for every person every where? That is not the Rasta view of the Chalice, Ishence, or what ever term the use to try to bring God in pleasing the flesh. I am glad that you don't see it as a Sacrement, but what about them? They do. are they just plain wrong in making that jump?


The "Rasta Stance On Ganja" is also varied, I think. What I am against is the idea that ganja is to be used in order to get spiritual experiences of any kind. That would be pharmakeia, period. I also say that in the same FAQ. The point is, that I have never been contacted by a Rasta concerning my position on ganja. It is not that big of an issue.

In a conversation with a good Dread Idren he told me that he smoked ganja to go through in babylon and I can perfectly overstand this. I know a dread who licks up his chalice and produces big clouds of smoke as a hopefull celebration of the coming fall of babylon, but he does not "leave reality". I can perfectly overstand this. I know a musician who smokes to help him concentrate on what he's doing. I can perfectly overstand this.

Paulus does tell us, that WHATEVER we do, we got to give Thanks and Praise for it. So I can also overstand as to why some say Give Thanks And Praise While Chalice Blaze.

I know Rastas who do not smoke. A lot of Rastas do not smoke herb. Some occasionaly would drink a little tea. For them this whole herb sacrament is as much a sacrament as it is for me.

I see a tendency in my neighborhood that the youngsters are turning from pills and start to smoke herb more then taking these freaking pills. I rejoice over that for I know that it is far worse to take XTC and become a zombie then to smoke up the collie herb.

I wouldn't formulate sentences as "they are wrong", but I would question the idea that there is a herb sacrament. I would analyse it, I would come to a conclusion and I would share that conclusion not as a rule but as my conclusion.

You see, when you use herb as a way of getting into the spiritual (for lack of a better summary) you would try to enter into the sheep's place without going through the Door. You would try to get in touch with the Father but not through Yesus. And even if you would try to do so by drinking a cup of coffee, you would be doing the pharmakeia business.

JAH Love.
And hey I watched the spelling
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warrior
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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2004 22:16    Post subject: Reply with quote

Messian Dread Quote: "You see, when you use herb as a way of getting into the spiritual (for lack of a better summary) you would try to enter into the sheep's place without going through the Door. You would try to get in touch with the Father but not through Yesus. And even if you would try to do so by drinking a cup of coffee, you would be doing the pharmakeia business. "

So very true. It once again comes to motives of doing whatever it is that we are doing.


Messian I have a question (again) . For example, I do not have a problem with the fact that I or someone else may have a cup of coffee during a church service or a bible study.

But (in your reasonings you have said that herb can be compared to coffee) would it not be sinful to smoke ANYTHING during times of study or worship? I say sinful because coffee has no health affect on anyone but the one who drinks it. Where as smoking would effect those around us. Wether by the smoke or by how others look at those who smoke. THE OLD
MAKE ANOTHER STUMBLE ARGUEMENT.

When do we say it is a "churchical thing" verses a "JAH thing"?
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JAH SON



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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 01:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic is not even about "smoking ganja".


I am not saying that man should or should not smoke.



To some people I know in JA, smoking ganja is truely a Sacrament.



Still, I 100% agree with blaminack about the tricks of this system.



Yet still I know that the herb should be FREE. That's all. Correct the imbalance created by bobby.
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JAH SON



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Location: IN ZION WITH SHILOH

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 01:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

blaminack should ganja be illegal to those who use it as a Sacrament? (aka a Meat Offering)

I wot not.



Should it be illegal to farm hemp for oil, fabric, paper, etc?

No.



Personally, I think it should be illegal for them to take away a mans freedom.
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 01:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jetze,

I am thankful for your thoughtful answers. The rules that I am refering to are, I believe God's rules and that is explained fully in the other threads regarding it being sinful or not. I see it as drunkeness, but we have covered all of that. We just fundementally disagree with each other on this issue.

Jah Son,

Thanks for understanding my thinking, but I think that you only get it in part. There are two systems going on here, the War on Drugs and the effort put into making people into junkies and slaves. They are two sides of the same coin. What do they have in common? Money and peoples lives are destroyed. Both of them can be avoided by staying free from weed.

I have NO PROBLEM with HEMP being used for any industrial use that could be thought of. I have NO PROBLEM with marijuana being used for medicinaly legit purposes IF IT IS PROVEN TO BE MORE EFFECT than anything else. What I do have contention with is expolitation, abuse, intoxication, and recreational use if this substance. Many like to draw herbalist titles for themselves, and many other types of things that are intended to justify the misuse of the the plant. Some want to attach religious significance to it's use, but for the Christian this really all boils down to the simple question does Smoking Marijuana cater to the flesh or the Spirit? The Bible tells us that living a life that caters to the flesh is death, but living in the Spirit is life.

Let's really boil this down to the most important. Is smoking herb ok for the Christian. Why do I word this, this way? It is because to the lost man it matters nothing if smoking weed is sin. He is already lost and on his way to hell for many other more prominant things like the state of his heart and his lack of salvation. Would I go around telling a lost person that ganja would send him to Hell? No, I would explain what he has lost by not having a saving relationship with Christ...

But for the Christian, there is a TOTALLY DIFFERANT STANDARD. We are to be Holy, and Spotless, without Wrinkle if we are part of His Bride.
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JAH SON



Joined: 01 Nov 2003
Posts: 67
Location: IN ZION WITH SHILOH

PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 01:42    Post subject: Reply with quote

This topic is not even about "smoking ganja".


I am not saying that man should or should not smoke.



To some people I know in JA, smoking ganja is truely a Sacrament.



Still, I 100% agree with blaminack about the tricks of this system. I know what you r saying.



Yet still I know that the herb should be FREE. That's all. Correct the imbalance created by Bobbywrong.
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gospelkid



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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 03:39    Post subject: Reply with quote

sex is not a sin...but sex outside of marriage is though...so answer me as u guys are talking about barriers...so tell me where is the barriers in the above statement...is it outside of marriage????
these are questions not facts.....will someone prepare to answer logically or even spiritually with back up of scripture without twisting them..

smoking gunja..is it the same as drinking gunja??
cocaine in dentistry to numb the mouth. Is this a sin???
or is cocain taking by way of sniffing a sin???
can sin be defined a trangression against god...how do we define a transgression against god.
if we believe something is a sin in our heart and we do this thing do we not sin.
is not our body a temple...so once again is smoking the same as drinking???
or does it depend on our motive, what would be the motive for smoking gunja...is it fleshy or spiritual.
does it bring us closer to god spritually...if it does then there should be dozens of testimony to the fact...are there any????
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2004 04:27    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jah Son,

ANY attempt to use Ganja for a Sacrement is an attempt to put words in to Jah's Mouth. Man cannot make up his own way and expect God to accept it. God described what the offerings are to be. An attempt to use your own idea and impose that on God will not be accepted. Look to Cain. Look to the ones that the Earth swallowed up when they opposed Moses. Man cannot approach God outside of the method that God has set. To use Ganja as a Sacrement is an affront to the plan that god designed. Even to call it incense is a lie! God laid out exactly what that was to be made of. So do the folks in JA that you know a service and tell them the truth. We cannot try to MAKE God accept our habits and fleshly ideas. This brings judgment just as surely as the Son of Eli in the Old Test.

Gospel Kid these are great questions but you should bring them up in another thread as this one is quite specific...
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