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My question and comments as a Rastaman
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perfectloveinH.I.M.
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 115
Location: ohio, us

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2004 16:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

deh pope has stated dat he, himself is infalliable and cannot do wrong. deh pope says dat he is a vicar of Christ but he leads a worldwide demon-nation(denomination) of vampiristic predatorial preists dat cannot or choose not to keep their hands out of little boys pants. deh office of deh pope has been historically for sale and it really has no scriptural basis. if deh office of deh papcy is please let I know.

Revelation 17:9
And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

seven hills of rome

Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
NOTE: This is actually Roman Numerals. The Romans used this for their alphabet and their number system.

VICARIVS FILII DEI
(Vicar of the Son of God)

V= 5
I= 1
C=100
A= 0
R= 0
I=1
V=5
S=0

F=0
I=1
L=50
I=1
I=1

D=500
E=0
I=1

TOTAL

6 6 6



VICARIVS FILII DEI
THE LITERAL MEANING:
VICARIVS - substituting for, or in place of
FILII - means son
DEI - means God
_________________
"being 2nd advent Christian and feeling deh persecution of wolves in sheep's clothing masked as true Christians, Ini don't feel de need fi force Haile Selassie I on ones but to stay eternally cognizant dat salvation is summed up in love for I-manity.
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JonaGus
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Alexandria

PostPosted: 12 Oct 2004 18:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

perfectloveinH.I.M. wrote:
deh pope has stated dat he, himself is infalliable and cannot do wrong.


Actually, "cannot do wrong" is not the meaning of "infallible." My Catholic friends are happy to point out that John Paul II goes to confession to confess his own sins at least once a week. Why don't you find out what Catholics actually believe instead of attacking something they really don't believe? It would make your arguments against Catholicism more credible.

Quote:
deh pope says dat he is a vicar of Christ but he leads a worldwide demon-nation(denomination) of vampiristic predatorial preists dat cannot or choose not to keep their hands out of little boys pants.


Everyone is rightly offended by evils like pedophilia. Pedophilia is inexcusable, no matter who commits it.

The Catholic Church agrees with me on this. The Catholic Church clearly teaches the sexual abuse of children to be gravely sinful. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church's list of moral offenses, one finds: "...any sexual abuse perpetrated by adults on children or adolescents entrusted to their care. The offense is compounded by the scandalous harm done to the physical and moral integrity of the young, who will remain scarred by it all their lives; and the violation of responsibility for their upbringing." (CCC 2389).

In this context, it is worthwhile to note that the rate of pedophilia among Catholic priests (1.5-2%) is no higher than any other segment of society (teachers, police, politicians, non-Catholic clergy, etc.) and actually lower than many. Even non-Catholic academics like Philip Jenkins note that there have been similar sexual scandals in many other religious groups, such as the Anglican Communion, various Protestant churches, and the Jewish and Islamic communities. Why isn't the media just as concerned about sexual abuse in those populations? They should be.

So if you want to really put an end to pedophilia, as I do, you must not pretend it is merely a Catholic problem. It is a problem in every community. We must all work to protect children from predatory adults.

Quote:
deh office of deh pope ... has no scriptural basis.


Obviously, Catholics disagree, and they've written numerous books on the subject. I think that even Christians who do not agree with Catholics about the nature of the papacy, like Protestant and Eastern Orthodox Christians, can benefit from reading some of these books. Have you ever read any? My Catholic friends particularly recommend these:

Jesus, Peter & the Keys: A Scriptural Handbook on the Papacy
Upon This Rock: St. Peter and the Primacy of Rome in Scripture and the Early Church
Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy

Quote:
Revelation 17:9
And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

seven hills of rome

Revelation 17:18
And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.


Well, for what it's worth, Vatican hill is not one of the seven hills of Rome. In fact, it's on the opposite side of the Tiber River from the "City on Seven Hills."

Quote:
NOTE: This is actually Roman Numerals. The Romans used this for their alphabet and their number system.

VICARIVS FILII DEI
(Vicar of the Son of God)

V= 5
I= 1
C=100
A= 0
R= 0
I=1
V=5
S=0

F=0
I=1
L=50
I=1
I=1

D=500
E=0
I=1

TOTAL

6 6 6

VICARIVS FILII DEI
THE LITERAL MEANING:
VICARIVS - substituting for, or in place of
FILII - means son
DEI - means God


The math adds up, but the title does not. Though he is often called the "Vicar of Christ," "Vicarivs Filii Dei" is actually not one of the Pope's real titles.

I found this out very simply by doing a Google search. Here's an excerpt from an article by Patrick Madrid:

Patrick Madrid wrote:

Fiction 5
Accusation: The pope is the beast spoken of in Revelation 13. Verse 1 says that he wears crowns and has "blasphemous names" written on his head. Verse 18 says that the numerical value of his name adds up to 666. The pope's official title in Latin is Vicarius Filii Dei (Vicar Son of God). If you add that up using Roman numerals, you get 666. The pope's tiara is emblazoned with this title, formed by diamonds and other jewels.

Response: I wasn't very good at math in school, but even I can follow this argument and run the numbers well enough to show it's bogus. (Besides, answering this question is apologetics at its most fun!) The charge that the pope is the beast of Revelation 13, because his title adds up to 666, is especially popular with Seventh-Day Adventists, but it's also widely repeated in some Protestant circles.

Vicarius Filii Dei does have the mathematical value of 666 in Latin. Here's how it works. Like many ancient languages, such as Greek and Hebrew, some Latin letters are also used for numbers: I = 1, V = 5, X = 10, L = 50, C = 100, D = 500 and M = 1000. The letter "u" is rendered as V and the letter "w," which doesn't exist in the Latin alphabet, would be rendered as VV. So this title would read in Latin as VICARIVS FILII DEI.

When calculating the value of a name or word, letters that don't have a numerical value are ignored. For example, drop out the no-value letters in my name, PATRICK MADRID, and you come up with 2102 — 1 (i) + 100 (c) + 1000 (m) + 500 (d) + 1 (i) + 500 (d) = 2102. (By the way, this is one reason why, as far as I know, no one has yet accused me of being in league with the anti-Christ. The numbers just don't add up.)

But in the case of VICARIVS FILII DEI, they do add up to 666. Isolate the numbers and this is what you get: 5 (v) + 1 (i) + 100 (c) + 1 (i) + 5 (V) + 1 (i) + 50 (L) + 1 (i) + 1 (i) + 500 (d) + 1 (i) = 666.

But there are problems with this. The first is that Vicarius Filii Dei, or "Vicar of the Son of God," is not now, nor has it ever been, a title of the bishop of Rome. The second problem is that virtually no one, including many unsuspecting lay Catholics, knows that this papal "title" is a fabrication. To an untrained ear, it sounds enough like one of the pope's real titles, Vicarius Christi (Vicar of Christ), to pass the test. Unfortunately for those who traffic in this particular piece of pope fiction, the real title, Vicarius Christi, adds up to only a measly 214, not the infernal 666. In fact, none of the pope's official titles, such as Servus Servorum Dei (Servant of the Servants of God), Pontifex Maximus (Supreme Pontiff), or Successor Petri (Successor of Peter), will add up to 666. That's why you never see any of them used by anti-Catholics.

If the person making this claim disputes these facts, ask him to furnish even one example of a papal decree, ecclesiastical letter, conciliar statement, or any other official Catholic document in which the pope calls himself or is referred to as the "Vicar of the Son of God." He won't be able to find one, because none exist. Vicarius Filii Dei has never been a title of the pope.

Poof! That part was easy, but some people, especially Seventh-Day Adventists, will ignore the evidence (or lack of it) and hold tenaciously to the notion that "Vicar of the Son of God" is an official papal title and therefore identifies the pope as the Beast of Revelation. What else can be said in response?

Using the same math exercise we did above, point out that the name of the woman who started the Seventh-Day Adventist church, Ellen Gould White, also adds up to 666 in Latin. (L + L + V +D + V + V + I = 666). Then ask if this proves that she is the Beast. I can assure you the answer won't be "yes." If the answer is "no," ask how this numbers game could possibly prove the pope or anyone else is the Beast. If you're answered with silence, it's a good bet that you've made some progress with the person.

The main fact to impress on someone who uses this argument is that a papal title had to be invented, one that could produce the magic number, in order to give this argument legs.

But we're not quite finished cutting it off at the knees. The charge that the pope is the Beast because he wears a crown, and Revelation 13:1 says the Beast wears crowns and has "blasphemous names" written on his head, must also be answered. This we can do more quickly.

Since about the year 708, many popes have worn at non-liturgical ceremonial events a special papal crown called a tiara, but the stylized beehive-shaped papal crown of three diadems that we have come to know as a tiara emerged only in the early 14th century. Although it was customary for tiaras to be encrusted with jewels and precious ornaments, there is no evidence — no statue, bust, painting, drawing or even written description of any of the many tiaras that were crafted — that any papal tiara ever had the name or title of a pope emblazoned on it.

This is significant, because there have been medieval and Renaissance popes whose extravagant vanity prodded them to have lavishly ornamented, jewel-encrusted tiaras made for themselves. And we possess paintings and statues and other representations of them produced during their lifetimes that show these tiaras (we even possess some of the actual tiaras). If any popes in history would have been tempted to succumb to the bad taste of spelling out "Vicarius Filii Dei" in diamonds across the front of their tiaras, these men would have — but they didn't. No pope did. One particular anti-Catholic tract I've seen shows a plain metal tiara with Vicarius Filii Dei written in diamonds across it. But it was a drawing — not a photograph of a museum piece or even a photo of a painting of a tiara.

It had to be drawn, of course, because the "666 papal crown"— as with all the other pope fictions—has only ever existed in the minds of those who perpetuate this fantasy.


The tone of this argument by Madrid may leave something to be desired, but it is, nevertheless, a clear refutation of the "Vicarivs Filii Dei" nonsense.
_________________
Do you remember when they crucified the Christ? There was someone on the left and someone on the right. They were both thieves! It's the same for ideologies. —Berhane Selassie
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12TribesLion



Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Posts: 41
Location: Caribbean

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 04:24    Post subject: Rome is Babylon the Great Reply with quote

perfectloveinhim, isn't it obvious to I n I Rastafari, that Rome is Babylon the Great, the Mother of Harlots? That is why the Rastaman chant," Babylon burning. Babylon burning. Babylon burning and they have no water. Fire Fire. Fire Fire. Controlling fire to burn down Babylon."
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"Unto which promise our Twelve Tribes, instantly serving Jah day and night, hope to come. "(Acts 26:7)
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12TribesLion



Joined: 01 Oct 2002
Posts: 41
Location: Caribbean

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 04:36    Post subject: Give me a break man Reply with quote

irieinchrist wrote: I'm having trouble with the fact that every time someone questions something about Rastafari, this is called European White misunderstanding. I see this time and time again. Like if you question rastafari you always are white and European. But I'm not questioning things because of the fact that I'm white or European, I am because my brains work and question things in reasoning. I'm trying to be objective. But over and over again I see many people explain this as being a white and European thing, and therefore wrong. But let me tell you that I know a lot of black people, not from Europe, that ask the same things and question rastafari as well. Like anything else in the world, rastafari should be questioned, and when done so, it shouldn't be explained as a white European thing all the time.

_____________________________________________________________

Please don't even look to turn this into any black and white thing, because I personally know some white people in Rastafari, & they would also say the same thing I said. Rastafari is being embraced by all kinds of people not just Africans alone. The problem with some of you here is that you don't question Rastafari, you criticise I n I faith, especially Emperor Haile Selassie for who he really is & that is not what the Messiah would do, He came to teach us the truth. So who you really following? It surely ain't the Messiah at all. As for your comment blaminack, about me being silent all these years.lol. First of all I have a site to manage, & I really didn't want to waste my time reasoning on this site before. I think I should leave again very soon.lol.
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"Unto which promise our Twelve Tribes, instantly serving Jah day and night, hope to come. "(Acts 26:7)
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blaminack
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Joined: 15 Nov 2001
Posts: 1927
Location: Panama City Fl

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 04:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I hope that you don't, but as you can see some of the discussion do take alot of time. But I think it is very important! We need your input. If you want to change some of the stereotypes you have an opportunity to make some differances. Bring some well thought out reasonings. We all need that. Bless Up!
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Reggae D.O



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 93
Location: CA

PostPosted: 14 Oct 2004 06:54    Post subject: Reply with quote

PerfectloveinHIM...I would have to agree with Jonagus (whom I must thank for his continued very researched and insightful posts)...I am a former Catholic (although it still feels odd saying that)...as I feel most of us come to reason about Rasta openly...you should do the same. It makes no sense to chant down Catholicism without proper evidence. What is your intent? If you feel so strongly against it...why don't you do some research and share some of your insighful info.? How would you take it if I came around and said...Selassie was just a man who was good...and now he is dead. Dumb comment right? We all come to reason and not pass judgement...please offer the same respect. Although I have chose to leave Catholicism, it was only after much study and tribulation...I would be happy to reason on the subject if your angst is properly supported. Blessings. Rootsdr.
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