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White Jesus/Western Christianity
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Jah Servant
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Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 402
Location: Canada

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2003 00:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

People (those without a true relationship with YHWH) will misuse anything they can that will help their cause, they'll call themselves by any name that'll help fulfill their plans. So happens that there were just a bunch of "traditional Christians" as I like to put it, which are people who are like the people of Judah that Isaiah prophesies to in Chapter 1 of Isaiah.

2 Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth!
For the LORD has spoken:
"I have nourished and brought up children,
And they have rebelled against Me;
3The ox knows its owner
And the donkey its master's crib;
But Israel does not know,
My people do not consider."


4Alas, sinful nation,
A people laden with iniquity,
A brood of evildoers,
Children who are corrupters!
They have forsaken the LORD,
They have provoked to anger
The Holy One of Israel,
They have turned away backward.


5Why should you be stricken again?
You will revolt more and more.
The whole head is sick,
And the whole heart faints.
6From the sole of the foot even to the head,
There is no soundness in it,
But wounds and bruises and putrefying sores;
They have not been closed or bound up,
Or soothed with ointment.

But from verse 10 it really kicks in

10Hear the word of the LORD,
You rulers of Sodom;
Give ear to the law of our God,
You people of Gomorrah:
11"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?"
Says the LORD.
"I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
And the fat of fed cattle.
I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
Or of lambs or goats.


12"When you come to appear before Me,
Who has required this from your hand,
To trample My courts?
13Bring no more futile sacrifices;
Incense is an abomination to Me.
The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies--
I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14Your New Moons and your appointed feasts
My soul hates;
They are a trouble to Me,
I am weary of bearing them.
15When you spread out your hands,
I will hide My eyes from you;
Even though you make many prayers,
I will not hear.
Your hands are full of blood.


16"Wash yourselves, make yourselves clean;
Put away the evil of your doings from before My eyes.
Cease to do evil,
17Learn to do good;
Seek justice,
Rebuke the oppressor;[1]
Defend the fatherless,
Plead for the widow.


18"Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the LORD,
"Though your sins are like scarlet,
They shall be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They shall be as wool.
19If you are willing and obedient,
You shall eat the good of the land;
20But if you refuse and rebel,
You shall be devoured by the sword";
For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

So we see the way that God saw them, however they saw themselves as His people still. The were "doing all the stuff" sacrificing and holding the feasts that God commanded, but it was all done with no heart. Just traditional, so these are the type of people I call traditional Christians. Doing all the stuff but with no heart, go to church, sing the songs, listen to the word, but it doesn't sink in, no change in lifestyle, thinking they are saved by their actions. Being on a boat but somehow missing the boat at the same time, because they got on the wrong boat.

This whole thing just hurts me (I can't imagine how God feels, they will pay for what they did, but unfortunately many were turned away from God that would have come to know Him and they'll also have to suffer the consequences of their sins as well) and the damage that has been done will not be fixed by giving people a Jesus with different skin colors. Pictures of Jesus should be outlawed. We don't need a picture, if we did, He would have had some portraits done while He was walking the earth to leave for us. It goes back to having idols in a way, people just like to have something to see and touch, but those pictures won't do a thing for us. As we can see, the image of Jesus that people have has done more harm than good.

Jesus told us how to avoid this "by your love for one another they will know you" but where is the love? The solution to the problem is a simple one, but carrying out the solution is not so simple. Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and let the fruit of the Spirit rule in our members, then we'll have the love for people that God Himself has for them. If each person would truly seek God we would all have life changing experiences as we let Hm clean up our lives. But applying this to those who have been hurt and pushed away is a timely thing, there are no quick changes it takes time and building relationship with people to see changes. And very few seem willing to start to do this and heal the past. There is alot of healing to be done in the body first, then we can reach out to others and represent the true Christ.
sorry for the length of the post guys
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Psalm 27:4
One thing I have desired of the LORD,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD,
And to inquire in His temple.
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burt_nader
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 131
Location: the heart of zion in the middle of babylon

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2003 20:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jah Servant wrote:
I live and grew up in Canada and I don't have a picture of a white Jesus in my head, truth is I'm not that interested in how dark His skin was/is or what style His hair was/is. The problem isn't so much that people have pushed the image of a white skinned Jesus on others, but that they didn't or don't live in a way to show Jesus in their lives. .


right on man, who cares what color jesus christ is? does it really matter? The holy spirit doesnt have any color. What a superficial shallow argument. good lord.
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Jah Servant
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2003 21:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, but still it has pushed many away from the truth
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Psalm 27:4
One thing I have desired of the LORD,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD,
And to inquire in His temple.
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burt_nader
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Joined: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 131
Location: the heart of zion in the middle of babylon

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2003 22:38    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok but heres the thing. Just because someone is hung up with a white jesus, doesnt mean the person who sees jesus as white in their mind is hung up or wrong. The person with the racial hang up is the one who is wrong and therefore becomes prejudiced and judgemental.
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Jah Servant
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: 19 Nov 2003 23:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

what color or race a person sees Jesus as doesn't matter. What mattered was that people who talked as though they represented God acted in a way as to mirepresent Him, then tried to get the people they oppressed to believe in the same God, when they say God agrees with the wrong they are doing, so of course it turns people away. The thing is that the way you live your life is a more powerful testimony than the words you say. Messian Dread is even calling the god of these people a false god which I guess is true in a way. I see it more as people who are "traditional" with no relationship with Christ, no life changes made, like I said in a previous post. I think this is the basis of this thread. The problem is this, when people see our God as something He's not, because of the wrong things done in His name, then how do you get them to see the truth and accept Jesus as the only way? Especially when the name of Jesus makes them turn away. This is alot of what's dealt with regarding Rasta's. It has unfortunately become a race issue because, once again, people messed it up. When in fact Jesus is for everybody, that's why we have to live right, according to the word, not the tradition of men.
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Psalm 27:4
One thing I have desired of the LORD,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell in the house of the LORD
All the days of my life,
To behold the beauty of the LORD,
And to inquire in His temple.
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Talking Dog
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 289
Location: Shrewsbury, UK

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 12:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

To me it demonstrates an attitude which is highly unaware of history and culture to lightly dismiss the issue of "what colour Jesus was".

In many ways I am in full agreement with what Jah Servant is saying. The failures of past (and present) generations of christians to LIVE the gospel has been a serious cause of stumbling for multitudes.

At the same time I fundamentally DISAGREE with the perspectives that Burt Nader is bringing forward. It is very easy - if you are white, and if you do not reflect deeply - to say "it doesn't matter if Jesus was black" in a culture where white cultural and economic supremacy are the normative values. Black history in the West for the last 400 years is based on kidnap, murder, slavery, torture and abuse. Much of the proseperity of the White West is built on that foundation. Economically, spiritually and socially the descendents of the African holocaust have still not recovered from their experience.

Now consider the role which the image of a "white" european looking Jesus played throughout this history. This was the image presented to teh Africans of the god who the white slave masters and industrialists said they worshipped. This image was presented in a false religious "christian" formulation which was exploited by the white slavemasters as a means of social control and downpression of the black people they exploited. That a slave ship could be called "SS. Jesus" was a blasphemy of the highest order. The white Jesus, slavery, and oppressive religion which perverted the true image and nature of Christ are inextricably bound together.

Follow this through in thinking about the recovery of Black history which rightly recognises that the people of the Bible, including our Saviour, were dark skinned, even black people in most cases. As the post-holocaust black consciousness rises and sees through the misrepresentations of the babylonian system who stole and killed their ancestors, do you imagine that it "doesn't matter" how Jesus is represented to such people? That the image of a white Euro-Jesus is value free? That it is unimportant to reclaim a more truthful image and doctrine of Christ?

It is far too easy to "spiritualise" these issues. I think they are real and they do matter significantly in the way that the Gospel of Christ is to be presented. The misconceptions of the past need to be acknowledged and corrected. It is not a small matter to many serious and spiritual black people, both within and without the Kingdom of God.

Frankly, it reflects a gross lack of insight and knowledge to sweepingly dismiss their concerns and wounds with "who cares what colour Jesus was". People do care, and it would be good for someone who thinks like this to take the time and effort to journey outside the white ghetto of their current mindset to learn WHY.
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blaminack
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Location: Panama City Fl

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 13:02    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that this is exactly why the Word tells us to make NO image of God...
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mikeroots
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Location: Torrington, CT USA

PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 14:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jah Servant wrote:
Pictures of Jesus should be outlawed. We don't need a picture, if we did, He would have had some portraits done while He was walking the earth to leave for us. It goes back to having idols in a way, people just like to have something to see and touch, but those pictures won't do a thing for us. As we can see, the image of Jesus that people have has done more harm than good.


AGREED! So many depictions- so many hair colours and textures, eye color, skin tones, facial features...what good does it do but to cause division? I think you're exactly right- if Christ's physical image was so important for us to have, He would have made it available to us. The only times where I see physical depictions of Christ helpful is when teaching children and in the use of films. Then again, we'll always see differing viewpoints as to how Jesus, his disciples and prophets, etc. looked.
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