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White Jesus/Western Christianity
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 15:49    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I think that this is exactly why the Word tells us to make NO image of God..."

No, I think that was to do with idol worship - the image being worshipped rather than the almighty as was the practice among the heathen nations.

Jesu Himself WAS "the image" of the invisible God, not in some abstract spiritual sense, but as a real flesh and blood historical figure. So I see it as retrograde step to downplay the significance of Him being born into a Semitic Hebrew human context, with everything that entails.

Mike asks: "...what good does it do but to cause division?"

Well, the division has already been caused by our predecessors departing from the truth and mixing it with something which was a gross misrepresentation of Jesus, His nature and mission. The damage has been done, and many still perpetuate it, knowingly or not.

How is the damage from this to be healed? By ignoring it and saying "it doesn't matter" - even though it manifestly DOES matter to many black people - or by seeking to recognise and correct the errors and abuses of our forefathers in misrepresenting Him? I think the latter.

Saying "it doesn't matter" is likely to be a response of those who are in a mindset which cannot fully see beyond the somewhat un-self-critical perspectives of being white in a white-controlled cultural hegemony. There are values and presuppositions which come down through the experience of being white which are fairly opaque to those born into that expeerience and enjoying its relative privileges. It is the nature of an idol that you don't know it is an idol when you give your allegiance to it, and I would say there is something idolatrous about this.

I am not suggesting that any particular cultural imagery of Jesus has power above the living reality of the Person of the risen and glorified Jesus. he came for every tribe and nation, salvation is open to all who come to Him. What I am saying is that the cultural power, histories and philosophies associated with particular imagery of Jesus are real and not to be taken lightly. Nor should we seek to abolish the reality of the Bible as a cellection of texts written by and (mainly) about black/dark-skinned people, and that God our Saviour came in the flesh as one of them.
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Jah Servant
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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 17:14    Post subject: Reply with quote

It only matters to people who have been affected by it I guess. In that way, if we love them, then it should matter to us. But solving the question of His color is not going to draw people to Him. In the end it really doesn't matter what color He is, because every knee will bow and people will be judged accordingly, whether you're the same color as Him or not, the thing of the skin color not mattering I think is in the perspective that it has nothing to do with what He did for us, nothing to do with our salvation. I'm sure this hurts God deeply, that people have done committed terrible acts in His name, but this situation not from Him, this is all caused by man and the devil. It all comes down to people that were misrepresenting God, or following the false god as Messian Dread puts it, a god with the same name as our god (big deception). The real question is this, how do we undo what was done. How do we get people who are hung up on the image and rejecting Him because of the image to look at what's really important. That He died for all. All through the old testament it's prophesied that salvation will come to the gentiles and they will become God's people too. It happend through Jesus, this is what people need to see. But how do we get them to open their eyes to the truth?
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 17:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The real question is this, how do we undo what was done. How do we get people who are hung up on the image and rejecting Him because of the image to look at what's really important. That He died for all.


Partly by correcting the image and acknowledging the wrong that has been done! I don't think you can get away from it. But, substantially, by living in the power of the Spirit and regaining a full comprehension of what the Kingdom of God is really about, and living as though we believed it.
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burt_nader
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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2003 23:53    Post subject: Reply with quote

well if you read the new testement you know jesus was jewish... possibly african? he did live in egypt for a while, but most likely he looked like a modern day palestinian.

If you wanna view the historical jesus in your head as a Black African then go right ahead.

I never cared what he looked like, as you can see him in almost everyone if you look hard enough.

your hang ups are your own hang ups that you have to conquer, lashing out at people who in their ignorance view christ as a white blue eyed european isnt gonna help. These people still can have the same holy spirit of jesus christ that you do veiwing Him as a black african. time to unite no more schizms
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 11:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

B-N, these are not "my hang ups", and neither am I "lashing out" at anyone. Neither am I disputing that how someone views Christ makes a difference to whether they are really Christian or not. That is not the issue.

What I am talking about is the importance of recognising and countering the REAL damage which has been done because of the manifestly false image of a euro-jesus.

I believe this matter is important. If you and others don't that is your business, but at least acknowledge that it is a real issue for many non-white people who have a historical legacy to get past which has misrepresented Christ and Christianity to them.
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burt_nader
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 11:52    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking Dog wrote:
B-N, these are not "my hang ups", and neither am I "lashing out" at anyone. Neither am I disputing that how someone views Christ makes a difference to whether they are really Christian or not. That is not the issue.

What I am talking about is the importance of recognising and countering the REAL damage which has been done because of the manifestly false image of a euro-jesus.

I believe this matter is important. If you and others don't that is your business, but at least acknowledge that it is a real issue for many non-white people who have a historical legacy to get past which has misrepresented Christ and Christianity to them.


yes it is important to know what really is what. I think the evils done behind the guise of christianity throughout history have very little to do with the fact they saw jesus as a white euro blue eyed blonde. But that is definately one of them many misconceptions that abound. Maybe it happened because the only people who lived in Germany in say 1284 were all white people. I dont think that caused much damage though, except to maybe historical accuracy...

What the problems were with the medieval christian church tho is a whole other can of worms.


as you yourself say for me "it is a real issue for many non-white people who have a historical legacy to get past which has misrepresented Christ and Christianity to them."

yes, it is a real hang up. I want to help people over come these problems. Which can be solved only by realizing jah has no color. peace.
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 14:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

burt_nader wrote:
I think the evils done behind the guise of christianity throughout history have very little to do with the fact they saw jesus as a white euro blue eyed blonde.


Well, the whole black and white issue was NOT raised by JAH or anyone of His true followers. But it was placed in the hearts of men during the slavery days as a way of keeping black people down.

Now it is not only a complexion-issue either when we talk about black and white in the context of the message of Rastafari. We have already established that the white geezus is a representation of the false god, and if the god of babylon is white then JAH is black. Because white stands for enslavement and black for "blessed are they that mourn".
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 15:36    Post subject: Reply with quote

Messian,

Forgive me but once again I don't think I'm grasping the concept...
Is the solution then to acknowledge that God is Black?
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