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White Jesus/Western Christianity
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Messian Dread
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 15:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

The statement that JAH is black is a result of the babylonians telling people that geezus is white.

White geezus stands for something, it stands for slavery. So in that context it would be quite absurd to state that Jah is white, wouldn't it?

If babylon is white then JAH is black. In this context it isd indeed important to acknowledge the blackness of JAH.

For many people within Rastafari "black" and "white" deal with these things, not neccesarily the colour skin but it is an answer to the racism of babylon.
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mikeroots
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 16:00    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is it necessary or even correct to assert that when Christ walked this earth he was black? Do we know this to be absolutely true? I think it is more likely that he was similar in complexion to those who live in Palestine today, but of course I'm not sure. I don't think portraying Christ as black is the answer to helping heal wounds and repair injustices done to black people, but to clearly show that Yeshua is for ALL- and HIS words and actions make that clear. Actually, the tribe of Judah (where He came out of) was of mixed race anyhow. Much of the evil committed in this world has come through the white man, but to respond to that by saying white altogether is babylon and therefore JAH is black is painting with too broad a brush, I think. Better that we educate ourselves and each other as to what the truth is about who Yeshua is and what He stands for and be able to see through the lies and false traditions handed down through the ages.
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 16:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

Understood. If the iniquities of what whites did is wrong then black is right.

I disagree with that because no man despite whatever color he/she may be is right. Blacks do bad things too, so do Brown skinned, Olive skinned, etc. people are just that, peopole.

If Babylon tells us that Jesus is white and the word of God says that Man was created in Gods image then what does that say about blacks or whites? It means that Babylon is and always will be wrong and that God is neither black nor white. God is God, man is man.

I think that is very important for Rastas and Christians to recognize.
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 16:50    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see the importance of the subject in asserting that He was NOT white (and not the downpressor idololatrous construct of the slavers) as much as assigning a particular ashade of "black" as a skin colour.

As MD says, in rasta (and this is the context, mainly, in which we discuss the issue) black and white stands as much for two different allegiances of consciousness as much as skin colour.

As I have said already, the importance of correction is to negate the power of the mental strongholds which were set up by the use of the white image and its strong connections in rasta thought with a corrupted and false religion. You have to undo the damage by asserting what was false about that whole thing, thereby removing the grounds for misconceptions to remain. It is spirtual matter as well, and I think it falls into the territory covered by Paul in 2 Corinthians 10:

"For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ"

Arguments, thoughts, concepts...these can be mental strongholds which oppose the true knowledge of God. This area is one such stronghold which needs to be demolished. You don't bring down a concept by ignoring it or saying it doesn't matter, but by opposing it with the truth.

Maybe it is important to demolish the strongholds bult up by the lies and abuses of the past before we can expect people to be able to receive the fullness about Christ for all races and cultures - particularly if you come to them as representatives of that same historical line of the church which has not substantially acknowledged its sins in the past in this respect?

Do you see what I am saying? The current witness of the church is compromised for many people where they see there has been little or no evidence of recognition and repentance for the past actions and failures to oppose slavery and even the continuing injustices of the present times.
Deal with that and then maybe the way forward is clearer....
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coolpoete
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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2003 17:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking Dog I agree with breaking down the ideology that was presented in this discussion of White Jesus. I am all for it. But when you break something down you have to rebuild and put something in its place. What you put in its place is where I have a problem.

((The same problem the US has with Iraq, but we're not going there in this post))

Yes Africa is the center of the history of civilization but God sent Jesus Christ to save mankind not because he was [probably] of African decent but because he is the son of God. His color has little to do with it but for too many it becomes a center point of focus. Like I said in another topic, It's not about worshipping Christ the Man, but Christ the idea.. the LIVITY.. the Character of God. If God could make him the skin color Green would it make a difference? Yes. To a great many people who would then go out and try to dye their skin Green. Why? Because they are preoccupied with color and not what he was all about.

"Talk 'bout the man but them don't know 'bout de man, talk bout the Son but nevah understand'"

Coming back to Skin for a brief second: I do believe that before this world comes to an end something will be said about Africa and the fact that the last shall be first. If history is true and we think about the conceivable notion of the passing on of generational sins... we all need to change the way we think and act in our own cuture and with others. Sin knows no color, God is not partial to sin.... sigh.. a big WHY when I see God face to face..

Man.. I ain't gettin NO work done today!! LOL!! It's FRIDAY!!!
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003 12:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

CP, you are right to say that the message isn't about skin colour - salvation and the Kingdom are open to all with no partiality. In my mind it is more to do with the credibility of the messenger.

The messenger who seeks to announce "good news" stands in a historical line with a church culture which has NOT been "good news" to black people. Also it has often not prophetically opposed and presented living alternatives to the deadly system of Babylon, and it has sided with the rich rather than being Good News to the poor.

It should not then be a surprise if people find reason to discount the message they are hearing. The integrity of the messenger and the coherence (or not) of the churches lifestyle and commitments to the message they are trying to bring are closely observed by most listeners.
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Tenor Diamond



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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003 13:22    Post subject: Does it matter? Reply with quote

cant see that it matters what color he had, what matters is that people that has not seen him claims to know what he looked like, has to shut up and quiet. I for one believs the Yesua was black, but I do not know, how can I ? Have not found any place in the scripture that give the information.

Love / Tenor D
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Talking Dog
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PostPosted: 25 Nov 2003 15:23    Post subject: Reply with quote

A concise point of view, Tenor D! As we have discussed earlier in thread, it might not matter to you, and that is your business - but recognise that it does matter for others, and that it might be good to appreciate why it does.

Many of the issues are not so much about "knowing what He looked like" exactly, but the associations of white christian imagery with less than helpful behaviour by the church. A different thing.
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