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White Jesus/Western Christianity
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cross fiyah
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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2004 06:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think I have anything in common with these groups or books you mentioned....You are sadly mistaken!

I can't believe you talk to me like this without even knowing me....Then you call me brother!

Dude..You are bogus!!....You are a fake and a fluke!!

You have stated your opinion about me.....Now let me state my opinion about you!

You are a self righteous hypocrite!!
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cross fiyah
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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2004 06:58    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jonagus

You know what my challenge is....I wanna see the proof buddy!

I am just a slight bit ticked off right now....Because I just went to one of those sights and there is NOTHING there that even remotely resembles my belief!!!

Dude...You got a challenge on your hands now!...And I'll be getting back with you because I am curious to see what you have come up with!!

Don't let your alligator mouth override your hummingbird guts!!
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Regis_sounds



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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2004 17:43    Post subject: Reply with quote

YEah men lol.Cool it,for real think of it all human come from noah`s seed.And yes people have missed used scripture to say that god cursed ham and that blacks are cursed by god.When in fact god cursed one of ham`s sons canaan.Which means that we are not cursed as some say.I mean some people claiming to be christians are misleading others.Like i am not one to get into what jesus looked like,but i know he ent had blonde hair and blue eyes.I wont even bother to go there.Seeking out things for ourselves is much better than taking others words sometimes.
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JonaGus
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PostPosted: 22 Jul 2004 23:34    Post subject: Reply with quote

cross fiyah wrote:
If you think I have anything in common with these groups or books you mentioned....You are sadly mistaken! I can't believe you talk to me like this without even knowing me....Then you call me brother!


What I actually said was:
Quote:
I am not saying that you actually belong to any of those groups, nor that you want to, nor that you yourself are definitely a racist. (Only you could answer those questions, and I'm not asking you to.)


But you do have something very big in common with those groups: a polygenist interpretation of Genesis. Identity adherants claim, for example, that only "whites" are descended from Adam while other "races" are descended from pre-Adamic people. This is the foundation for their false white supremacist ideology.

Again, I am not saying that you belong to the Identity movement nor that you want to. I am saying that if you want to avoid becoming a racist and/or being associated with racist hate groups (as you say), you should probably reconsider your interpretation, critique its sources, and be cautious about the company you keep. Someone may be trying to deceive you and/or lead you into one of those groups. I don't want that to happen, and it sounds like you don't either. Resist them, brother!
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JonaGus
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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2004 00:46    Post subject: Reply with quote

cross fiyah wrote:
I just went to one of those sights and there is NOTHING there that even remotely resembles my belief!!!


Excerpts from One Aryan Nation Under God, a Lutheran Pastor's exposure of the Identity movement:

Quote:
Identity racism is shaped by a particular reading of the creation accounts in the first chapters of the first book of the Bible, Genesis. Put together, these beliefs form a clear theology that is contrary to Judaism and Christianity. Here are some of Identity's core committments: The different races have their origins in separate creations by God (polygenesis). People of color (nonwhites) were created before Adam and Eve....

Taking the narrative from Genesis in order, Identity extremism alleges that the first creation narrative (Gen. 1-2:4) is an account of God's creating... pre-Adamic (that is, born before Adam) people of color.... To lend a scientific aura to the biblical claims, racial extremists often cite evidence they claim is irrefutable....

Turning to Genesis 2, Identity adherents assert that the Adamic white race was specially created... This creation account (Gen. 2:4-25), which follows the well-known seven-day creation story, is read as a fluid continuation of those seven days. It follows then that since 'on the seventh day God finished the work that God had done, and God rested' (Gen. 2:2), Adam, the first white man, was 'formed from the ground on the eighth day' of creation.... In this second creation account (Gen. 2:4-25), the personal nouns Adam and Eve are used for the first time. The meaning of the Hebrew word for Adam is thought to support the divine elevation of the white race because, Identity adherants argue, 'Adam... means: ruddy, to show blood in the face, flush or turn rosy, to be able to blush, to be fair.'

...according to Identity doctrine, a satanic sexual seducer lurked in Eden (Gen. 3:1-7).... Identity asserts that there are two lines of descendents originating from Eve.... They say Eve also had sexual relations with the serpent or a humanoid satanic being. The offpsring of Eve and Satan was Cain, the first Jew, a literal child of Satan on earth....

Through Identity's interpretation of Genesis 4 and the role of Cain, certain questions are brought to the text and answered. One such question is where Cain might have obtained a wife if Adam and Eve were the first human beings created by God. 'If there were no other peoples on the earth who was Cain afraid of? ...Cain was cast out, who did he marry if there were no other people?' The Identity answer is that Adam and Eve were not the first people created; there were pre-Adamic people of color whose existence outside the Aryan cradle answers the questions regarding Cain's wife and associations. Cain 'went away from the presence of God, and settled in the land of Nod, east of Eden' (Gen. 4:16), and in Nod, Identity adherents claim, he intermarried with the pre-Adamic people of color....

This racial interpretation of Genesis is the lens through which Identity reads the Bible and sees all of faith and life....


Nothing in common, huh? OK, I think it's safe to say that, although there may be some differences, the Identity interpretation of Genesis actually resembles your own quite a bit. You may claim you not draw the extreme racist conclusions, but the polygenist starting place is the same.

For example, you started the "Cain" thread by asking:

cross fiyah wrote:
Where did Cain find his wife if Adam and Eve were the only human beings on Earth at the time? Why isn't Cain in Adam's geneology?


Like you, Identity adherents are fond of these questions, because they believe Cain married someone from "pre-Adamic races." They also deny that Cain was Adam's son.

cross fiyah wrote:
There was a 6th day man...Adam...Male and female were created then...This is when God created the races and he said it was very good. There was also an 8th day man God formed from the dust of the Earth...Ha-A-Dam..Or "The" Adam...Who was ruddy complected. Cain did not have a sister to take for a wife...He went to the land of Nod where there were some of God's 6th day creation

Also:
Quote:
Cain was driven away...So then where did he find his wife?...Like I said...There was a 6th day man that God CREATED


All of these claims are exactly the same as Identity claims: that God created other races before Adam, that "ruddy" Adam was created on the 8th day, and that Cain married someone pre-Adamic.

cross fiyah wrote:
The good seed was sown by Christ...The bad seed was sown by satan...How and when?


Many Identity adherents love to ask this question too. They try to use this parable to bolster their claim that Eve was sexually seduced by Satan, a satanic angel, or a satanically-possessed pre-Adamite, and she conceived and gave birth to Cain. Identity adherents claim that Cain, "Satan's kid," was "the first Jew."

You argued the same as the Identity groups...

cross fiyah wrote:
I would also like to bring up the subject of the Kenites(sons of Cain).....
The ones who claim to be jews and are not but are of the synagouge of satan.


cross fiyah wrote:
Some think Eve ate an apple..Not so... Read on..In verse three...What is this word "touch"? .....To lie with a woman. Is this starting to make a little sense about the bad seed?.... satan does have seed.... Read on and God tells Eve that He multiply her sorrow and her CONCEPTION...What causes conception?..Not eating apples! ...Christ said that the enemy sowed the bad seed!! Kenites(sons of Cain)....Those that claim to be Jews..Of the tribe of Judah..And do lie and are of the synagogue of satan


It was especially telling that you are familiar with Arnold Murray and that you believe he is a Christian. Arnold Murray is frequently associated with Identity (c.f. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/christian-identity/religion-white-racists.html, http://www.carm.org/chapel/arnold_murray.htm, http://www.letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm, etc.). So you're familiar with Murray, and you preach the same doctrines, but you're also claiming that Identity doesn't use the Bible to make the same claims you make? Be consistent.
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cross fiyah
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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2004 04:18    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still.....No proof!!

You told me to be consistent.....Well I am telling you to quit running your mouth!!......Nobody wants to hear what you think.....You have not provided any facts.....You are only stating what you think!!...Opinion!!

Opinions are like backsides....Everyones got one!!
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blaminack
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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2004 04:26    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you check the links Ray? One has Arnold Murray's Racist comments quoted from his book. I told you his Kenite garbage was racist months ago.
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cross fiyah
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PostPosted: 23 Jul 2004 05:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLAMINACK

I did check those links....And like I said nothing there is hardly factual....Only statements and things taken out of their context.

What is racist about the Kenite teaching?.....You told me months ago that Murray teaches that black people are the Kenites.....YOU LIED!!.....Murray has NEVER taught that!!

What are you specificly talking about?....We will deal with it!

I will be doing another teaching about the Kenites REAL soon.....Are you gonna biasly tag me as a racist teacher?
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