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JonaGus
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Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Alexandria

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2004 19:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

perfectloveinH.I.M. wrote:
JonaGus,
Ini would say dat, dat part of deh vow is null and void since Christ has come because it involves blood, since He was supposed to be deh last blood sacrifice period.


I actually think that even in Christ special personal vows are possible and can be spiritually beneficial; but it will never be a Nazirite vow of the kind found in Numbers 6, because there's no way to make the offering.

If a man or woman wants to grow his dread and devote them to the Lord, I don't object. But it isn't a Nazirite vow. It is a new thing.
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Ras B
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Joined: 15 Aug 2003
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Location: Trinidad and Tabago

PostPosted: 17 Sep 2004 23:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
so there your own words are making the accusation that this is not in the bible...... whether or not samuel was "never to shave his head all the days of his life" has nothing to do with a normal person in old testament times, taking the nazirean vow. for samuel and samson were specially ordered by GOd to go thru that extreme...... once again let us go over the exact


you guys completly misunderstand me. i never denied the part about the cutting and burning the locks i only said that it is not the important part of the significance of the vow thats all.
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Ras B
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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2004 23:08    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
there is no evidence in the description of the vow that the hair was to be dreaded, it just says it is not to be cut until the vow is completed.......

not in the bible but in resarching the tradition of the nazirite through the hebrews it is found that not only did they grow their hair but they also refrained from grooming it as well. i dont care who you are, you go some months with out brushing long hair you will have dreads
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Ras B
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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2004 23:19    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Where does the Nazirite offer his sacrifice after 70 A.D.?"


just as certain parts of the law of moses are still the moral standard the vow is still valid. but since the messiah was the final sacrifice, burnt offerings cease but in I opinion that is the only thing that changed in the vow. though the messiah did make other changes in fulfilling the law he did not change any other parts of the vow. after 70ad is what InI call new covenant nazirites
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boomfire
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Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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Location: rhode island ,USA

PostPosted: 18 Sep 2004 16:13    Post subject: to ras b Reply with quote

when we read the second verse in numbers chapter 6,
Quote:
speak to the children of israel, and say to them: when either a man or women concencrates an offering to take the vow of a nazirite, to separate himself to the lord,
....... we see here that the foundation of the vow was for an offering . Again through out the chapter there are references to turtle doves and pigeons , which are all sacrifices that one is bound to under the law....... now when you consider romans 7:6
Quote:
but now we have been delivered from the law having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter
.... now read galatians chapter 3 and check these verses 3:2-3
Quote:
"this i want to learn from you : did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?, are you so foolish ? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the works of the flesh?
......... now in verses 10-13
Quote:
for as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written , "Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them. But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for "The just shall live by faith"
then to verse 13 it is made clear
Quote:
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us(for it is written cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree
...... then you ask what was the point of the law? and in verse 19 it is stated
Quote:
what purpose then does the law serve? it was added because of transgressions,till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of the mediator
as far as any new covenants are concerned , it is made very clear in hebrews chapter 8 (please read) and i quote the last verse 8:13
Quote:
In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is vanishing away
........................... that establishes what the new testament talks of the law.... now people say "well the vow of the nazirite is separate from the law.... this is impossible because as i mentioned at the beggining of this post , verse 2 states that the purpose of the vow was for an offering .. ........................................................................................................................................ or take this for thought .. say you take the nazirite vow , and you go near a dead animal , NOW WHAT ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO? you cant make the sacrifice of the turtle doves or the pigeons or even go to a priest because now JESUS IS OUR ONLY SACRIFICE ....... oh and if you even make it that far and finish the vow , verse 14 says its time to present your offering to the lord (which consists of a lamb and some food to be sacrificed) ok i think i made my point , one might say now there is a "new vow of the nazirite " that does not have these obligations of sacrifice, but that only means that you (personally)are drawing up the terms of this new vow , because numbers chapter 6 states the original terms (wouldnt want to explain to God why you added or changed scripture). and we know that the scriptures have been completed.........
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Jah Servant
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PostPosted: 18 Sep 2004 16:57    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm jumping in here but I would say that the purpose of the vow is the separation to the Lord. Offering the sacrifice is part of the deal, just as you buying a car from me. The purpose of the transaction is for you to get a car but the "vow" isn't complete until you give me the money and I give you the bill of sale.

You say Ras B may be changing scripture, but I say he's made a vow to God and it's between himself and God. The closest thing to it is the Nazarite vow, but since we are under grace now and not the law it can't be fulfilled the same way, re. the sacrifices. If he calls it New Covenant Nazarites or whatever else, that doesn't mean he changed scriptures. Do you think that Paul offered the sacrifices when he took the vow? He wrote the scriptures you are quoting from and tells us that sacrifice is no longer needed. The thing is there's very little about it in the new testament so we really don't have a guideline to go by to say this is definately the way the new covenant nazarite should be, so I say it's between the person and God.

Anyways, I'm not answering for Ras B, he'll do that, this is just the way I see it. I'm not saying that B is more righteous than you or I or anybody else, only God knows that, but if he's chosen to live this way and dedicates it to God then that's fine. If you dedicate the way you live to God then that's fine too. The Scriptures talk about one person estemes one day more than the others but another estemes every day alike, both ways are fine. It's also written to let all that we do be done to the Lord, this can well include how we grow your hair and our lifestyle.

How about this, why did Samson not shave his head? He killed many, so he would have come into contact with dead bodies for sure.
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boomfire
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Joined: 19 Jan 2003
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Location: rhode island ,USA

PostPosted: 19 Sep 2004 03:03    Post subject: Reply with quote

that is exactly my point if you want to take a vow to have dreads thats between you and God, but the dreads( themselves have no official sacriment anymore, (like they did in the old testament times) now it is just hair............. for we are saved under grace , not by works lest anyman should boast....... -boomfire p.s this discusion is about the vow of the nazirite , and paul did not take this vow
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warthog
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Joined: 19 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 19 Sep 2004 03:29    Post subject: Reply with quote

boomfire
you wrote:but the dreads( themselves have no official sacriment anymore,


Be careful with mysterious JAH! when you think he didnt say, you discover he has now said , cause he & no X-ristian is the TRUE BOSS!! mm mm
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