| View
previous topic :: View
next topic |
| Author |
Message |
JonaGus
Forum
Veteran
Joined:
08 Jul 2004
Posts: 486
Location: Alexandria
|
 Posted: 17 Sep 2004
19:19 Post subject:
|
 |
|
| perfectloveinH.I.M.
wrote: |
JonaGus,
Ini would say dat, dat part of
deh vow is null and void since Christ has come because it
involves blood, since He was supposed to be deh last blood
sacrifice period. |
I actually think that even in Christ special
personal vows are possible and can be spiritually beneficial; but it
will never be a Nazirite vow of the kind found in Numbers 6, because
there's no way to make the offering.
If a man or woman wants
to grow his dread and devote them to the Lord, I don't object. But
it isn't a Nazirite vow. It is a new
thing.
_________________
Do you remember when they crucified the Christ?
There was someone on the left and someone on the right. They were
both thieves! It's the same for ideologies. —Berhane
Selassie | |
| Back
to top |
|
 |
Ras B
Moderator
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts:
314
Location: Trinidad and Tabago
|
| Posted: 17 Sep 2004
23:05 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| so there your own words are making the
accusation that this is not in the bible...... whether or not
samuel was "never to shave his head all the days of his life"
has nothing to do with a normal person in old testament times,
taking the nazirean vow. for samuel and samson were specially
ordered by GOd to go thru that extreme...... once again let us
go over the exact |
you guys completly misunderstand me. i never
denied the part about the cutting and burning the locks i only said
that it is not the important part of the significance of the vow
thats all. | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
Ras B
Moderator
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts:
314
Location: Trinidad and Tabago
|
| Posted: 17 Sep 2004
23:08 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| there is no evidence in the description of the
vow that the hair was to be dreaded, it just says it is not to
be cut until the vow is
completed....... |
not in the bible but in resarching the tradition
of the nazirite through the hebrews it is found that not only did
they grow their hair but they also refrained from grooming it as
well. i dont care who you are, you go some months with out brushing
long hair you will have dreads | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
Ras B
Moderator
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Posts:
314
Location: Trinidad and Tabago
|
| Posted: 17 Sep 2004
23:19 Post subject:
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| "Where does the Nazirite offer his sacrifice
after 70 A.D.?" |
just as certain parts of the law of moses are
still the moral standard the vow is still valid. but since the
messiah was the final sacrifice, burnt offerings cease but in I
opinion that is the only thing that changed in the vow. though the
messiah did make other changes in fulfilling the law he did not
change any other parts of the vow. after 70ad is what InI call new
covenant nazirites | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
boomfire
Forum
Veteran
Joined:
19 Jan 2003
Posts: 111
Location: rhode island ,USA
|
| Posted: 18 Sep 2004
16:13 Post subject: to ras
b |
|
|
when we read the second verse in
numbers chapter 6,
| Quote: |
| speak to the children of israel, and say to
them: when either a man or women concencrates an offering to
take the vow of a nazirite, to separate himself to the
lord, | ....... we see
here that the foundation of the vow
was for an offering . Again through out the chapter there are
references to turtle doves and pigeons , which are all sacrifices
that one is bound to under the law....... now when you consider
romans 7:6
| Quote: |
| but now we have been delivered from the law
having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit
and not in the oldness of the
letter | .... now
read galatians chapter 3 and check these verses 3:2-3
| Quote: |
| "this i want to learn from you : did you receive the Spirit by the
works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?, are you
so foolish ? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by
the works of the flesh? | ......... now in verses 10-13
| Quote: |
| for as many as are of the works of the law are
under the curse; for it is written , "Cursed is everyone who
does not continue in all
things which are written in the book of the law, to do
them. But that no one is
justified by the law in the sight of God is evident,
for "The just shall live by
faith" | then to
verse 13 it is made clear
| Quote: |
| Christ has
redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a
curse for us(for it is written cursed is everyone who hangs on
a tree | ...... then you
ask what was the point of the law? and in verse 19 it is
stated
| Quote: |
| what purpose then does the law serve? it was added because of
transgressions,till the seed should come to whom the promise
was made; and it was appointed through angels by the
hand of the mediator | as far as any new covenants are concerned , it is
made very clear in hebrews chapter 8 (please read) and i quote the
last verse 8:13
| Quote: |
| In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first
obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old
is vanishing away | ........................... that establishes what the
new testament talks of the law.... now people say "well the vow of
the nazirite is separate from the law.... this is impossible because
as i mentioned at the beggining of this post , verse 2 states that
the purpose of the vow was for an
offering ..
........................................................................................................................................
or take this for thought .. say you take the nazirite vow , and you
go near a dead animal , NOW WHAT ARE
YOU SUPPOSED TO DO? you cant make the sacrifice of the turtle
doves or the pigeons or even go to a priest because now JESUS IS OUR ONLY SACRIFICE .......
oh and if you even make it that far and finish the vow , verse 14
says its time to present your offering to the lord (which consists
of a lamb and some food to be
sacrificed) ok i think i made my point , one might say now
there is a "new vow of the nazirite " that does not have these
obligations of sacrifice, but that
only means that you (personally)are drawing up the terms of this new
vow , because numbers chapter 6 states the original terms
(wouldnt want to explain to God why you added or changed scripture).
and we know that the scriptures have
been completed......... | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
Jah Servant
Forum
Veteran
Joined: 01 Jun 2003
Posts: 402
Location:
Canada
|
| Posted: 18 Sep 2004
16:57 Post subject:
|
|
|
I know I'm jumping in here but I
would say that the purpose of the vow is the separation to the Lord.
Offering the sacrifice is part of the deal, just as you buying a car
from me. The purpose of the transaction is for you to get a car but
the "vow" isn't complete until you give me the money and I give you
the bill of sale.
You say Ras B may be changing scripture,
but I say he's made a vow to God and it's between himself and God.
The closest thing to it is the Nazarite vow, but since we are under
grace now and not the law it can't be fulfilled the same way, re.
the sacrifices. If he calls it New Covenant Nazarites or whatever
else, that doesn't mean he changed scriptures. Do you think that
Paul offered the sacrifices when he took the vow? He wrote the
scriptures you are quoting from and tells us that sacrifice is no
longer needed. The thing is there's very little about it in the new
testament so we really don't have a guideline to go by to say this
is definately the way the new covenant nazarite should be, so I say
it's between the person and God.
Anyways, I'm not answering
for Ras B, he'll do that, this is just the way I see it. I'm not
saying that B is more righteous than you or I or anybody else, only
God knows that, but if he's chosen to live this way and dedicates it
to God then that's fine. If you dedicate the way you live to God
then that's fine too. The Scriptures talk about one person estemes
one day more than the others but another estemes every day alike,
both ways are fine. It's also written to let all that we do be done
to the Lord, this can well include how we grow your hair and our
lifestyle.
How about this, why did Samson not shave his
head? He killed many, so he would have come into contact with dead
bodies for sure.
_________________
Psalm 27:4
One thing I
have desired of the LORD,
That will I seek:
That I may dwell
in the house of the LORD
All the days of my life,
To behold
the beauty of the LORD,
And to inquire in His
temple. | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
boomfire
Forum
Veteran
Joined:
19 Jan 2003
Posts: 111
Location: rhode island ,USA
|
| Posted: 19 Sep 2004
03:03 Post subject:
|
|
|
| that is exactly my point if you
want to take a vow to have dreads thats between you and God, but the
dreads( themselves have no official sacriment anymore, (like they
did in the old testament times) now it is just hair............. for
we are saved under grace , not by works lest anyman should
boast....... -boomfire p.s this discusion is about the vow of the
nazirite , and paul did not take this vow | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
warthog
Forum
Veteran
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 197
|
| Posted: 19 Sep 2004
03:29 Post subject:
|
|
|
boomfire
you wrote:but the dreads( themselves have no official
sacriment anymore,
Be careful with mysterious
JAH! when you think he didnt say, you discover he has now said ,
cause he & no X-ristian is the TRUE BOSS!! mm  mm
 | |
| Back
to top |
|
|
|
|
FAQ 
Search 
Memberlist 
Usergroups 
Profile 
You have no new
messages ![Log out [ Messian Dread ]](06_bestanden/icon_mini_login.gif){kind=icon}
Log out [ Messian
Dread ] 
